Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Would you guys recomend a gaboon for a first hot? What size aquarium would you recommend

No. Although Gabs make hardy and fairly easy captives, they are way too venomous for a first hot. Should you make a mistake and get bit by a Gab, it would not be a very forgiving bite. It may very well be your last! They are generally calm snakes, hardly moving from their favorite spots. This can fool the unexperienced into a false sense of security. Because they are large, fat snakes, they give the impression of being slow which they NOT! They are fast, HARD hitting animals which WILL hit you if you are within it's range. Definitely not a good choice for a first hot in my opinion.

If you are getting into hots I would assume you have experience with difficult species so your choice of first hot should be the most forgiving. I would say an eyelash viper would be a good choice. I think gaboon would be far down the list shortly after the elapids but I am no expert.

Starting with a gabonica would be akin to having a Corvette for a first car.

~~Greg~~

How toxic is the eyelash venom?

I have never been bit but from what i hear they do not pack a wicked hit like the others mentioned...id rather get bit my them than a gaboon for sure

...if you like lengthy hospital stays or the feel of sleeping forever in a pine box

Seriously, a gabby is a HORRIBLE choice for a first hot. A copperhead or a rear-fang (not a boomslang or twig snake) would be good starters.

Don't worry about experience first go for a black mamba.
Most dealers will jump at the chance to sell it no questions asked its all to make a buck.
also save big bucks and have them label the box lizards
then have them ship it UPS much cheaper!
don't worry if you get caught or bit the seller will simply say we checked him out he seemed legit.
As for the illegal shipping they will drive to a nearby town and send it incognito to cover themselves.
This senario is played out daily and is not as far fetched as it seems.
so who is guilty the buyer or the seller?
oh its me for worring about this crap sorry
-----
Bud

lol...or just get na eyelash viper or a copperhead. I like water snake (hence eneuctes4) a cotton mouth is on average less agressive than a copperhead also and has a wicked bite and the reputation of a king cobra. Everyone likes to go with gaboons and retics and all the colorfull stuff. I like the look over peoples eyes with long history or stories of the anaconda, the cotton mouth (only in United states...but for some reason people are terrified of them), the king cobra..(ok I am a little scared of those). But to each their own. Just do it just like stated above lol.

I was surprised to see some folks actually recommending a Bitis for a first time venomous snake; that is ludicrous in my opinion and absolutely horrible advice. Sure, they are fairly hardy and easy to maintain but for the shear risks that are involved, they are not to be considered as a great "first time hot herp" selection; far from it. If you are really interested in keeping venomous reptiles (assuming you are of appropriate age....if you are minor you have no business keeping hots until you are older), there are MANY things you need to consider:

1) Antivenin: are you willing to spend thousands of dollars to keep your own supply of A/V? If not, what hospitals in the area keep A/V of exotic venomous herps (NONE for the most part). Are you going to rely on zoos to bail you out in an emergency...don't count on it (it is not their responsibility)?

2) Are you willing to die just for the sake of keeping a venomous snake? Harsh but something many people fail to take into consideration.

3) Do you have the necessary experience in keeping non venomous herps to move on to venomous species? Have you been mentored by someone who is an expert in keeping venomous species?

4) Do you have your own place that has a special room designed to keep venomous herps (i.e. locked, security system in place, special vents, secure windows, etc. etc.)

This is not said to necessarily deter you but to inform you of the many, many aspects one must consider when keeping venomous. If you are dead set on keeping a venomous herp, there are many other better alternatives to gabbies:

- copperheads
- pygmy rattlers
- banded rock rattlers

there are many others but there are all hardy animals that are not as prone to inflicting a deadly bite as what you are proposing (but realize this, even the above animals can kill depending on the severity of the bite). The above snakes are what I started out with before moving up to large vipers, elapids and other dangerous venomous herps. Hope this helps. Rob

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
City of Lake Forest Parks & Recreation (IL)

Please go back & re-read this thread. Nobody seriously recommended a Bitis as a first hot.

~~Greg~~

I was going to post the same thing...but his point still stood. I do not know why nobody is recomending the same things I said?

Since when does SAIMR or any exotic AV cost thousands..... Only CroFab will run you into the thousands..... SAIMR runs around $60usd for a two pack..... Even if you aquired 20 vials you would still be well under a grand..... The hard part is getting the permits to import the stuff.... With that being said, A gaboon is far from a good beginner hot..... And for the record, they are not all that easy to care for..... Dehydration and URIs can be a problem if you do not know what you are doing..... Lets face it, how many gaboons do you see over 5 feet in private collections???? Not many, especially when you consider how many neonates are sold every year.....

You cannot state "for the record" that they are not easy to care for. The key phrase is one you already stated. You have to know their particular husbandry. Once known, they are hardy captives. I personally, as well as a few close friends maintain several between us that are long term residents of our collections. Just like any other animal you intend to keep, you must know their particular needs prior to obtaining that animal. If keepers are having difficulty keeping their Gabs alive, it is only because they have not taken the time to know their particular husbandry needs.

First, sorry for my rash reply. And as far as the SAIMR A/V, the previous poster was absolutely right in that the costs are much less than CroFab. We are currently in the process of obtaining all of our various import permits to purchase our own supply....what an aggravating process but well worth the effort. This is obviously a very sticky issue and one that warrants further debate/discussion. Rob

Very true..... I should have said not very easy to care for by the average snake keeper or someone that does not have the experiance with bitis...... Hey if you have pics of your gaboons, send them to me and I will put them up on my site....

doubleU doubleU doubleU dot bitisgabonica dot com

LD50 of Bothriechis schlegelii (eyelash viper):
Intravenous: 1.6
Subcutaneous: 33.2
Venom Yield: 10.0-20.0

LD 50 of Bitis Gabonica (Gaboon Viper):
Intravenous: 6.722
Subcutaneous: 12.5
Intramuscular: 5.2
Venom Yield: 450.0-600.0

Venom yield and low LD50 makes Bitis a bad choice.

For more info on LD50: http://mzone.mweb.co.za/residents/net12980/ld50tot.html
LD50 of various snakes

1. Fast striking
2. Fangs up to two inches in length
3. LD50 of 0.14 mg

You do the math.

No venomous snake should be housed casually in an aquarium. I've seen a very few home built setups that included aquariums that were actually secure because they were totally enclosed in a locking frame, but the average aquarium plus screen lid situation is NOT secure and is no place to keep any venomous snake.

Gaboons are not the best or the worst first choice for a hot. A lot depends on how disciplined the keeper is. They are easy to underestimate, and the bite is very very bad.

http://www.kingsnake.com/snakegetters/demo/gaboons.html
Please don

After reading the long thread to the initial question it's about time someone mentioned the aquarium comment.
If your thinking aquarium for your hot then more research and/or experience is needed before you take the first step. (hmm, to think about it, if you have to ask if a Gaboon is a good first choice your prob. not ready either)
On the other hand I've seen some pretty well known keepers use aquariums, but withen a locked dedicated hot room. When first moving to Hots start overly cautious, then let experience dictate your setup.(great, now I have to specify experience; not comfort/negligence)
As with the above statements I would start with a copperhead or small rattler. If not for the ease of being small. This means a smaller strike range and usually only one pair of snake tongs are needed.

the thing that troubles me about your post is not asking about the gaboon, but asking about an aquarium. venomous snakes should never be kept in any type of glass enclosure. they need specific cages made just for venomous snakes.

my first venomous snake was a gaboon viper. i was only 18 when i bought her and looking back on it now, i was DEFINITLY TOO YOUNG!!! i am 30 now and the gaboon is still with me, but looking back i agree with the other posts, that a gaboon would not be a wise 1st choise. i have been handling herps since the age of 3 and had lots of experience with large monitors and snakes such as retics and the like. so i felt i could handle a gaboon. i have been dealing with hot herps for 12 years now and have never been bitten, but thats not to say that the odds are in your favor. my reccomendation is start with a small arboreal like an eyelash or if looking for a ground viper like the gaboon, try a copperhead.

gaboons are mostly shy lazy creatures that normally are very placid in captivity, but when need be, they are as fast as a bolt of lightning and without any previous venomous experience, you are playing with fire. do yourself a favor and before you buy a hot snale, buy a cage that is specifically made for venomous snakes. ie, front opening enclosure with a plexi-glass front.

In a word.......NO.sorry to burst your bubble.

no, a gabby is definitely NOT a good 1st hot. putting any kind of hot into a regular aquarium (at least in my opinion) is not a good idea. you need a very secure enclosure for those types of animals. there is a big difference between your pet boa getting out and your pet viper getting out. even with clamps to keep the lid on, i could never recommend putting a venomous snake in an all glass aquarium.

Sounds like a Flame. Pygmy rattlesnake would be good probably won't kill you when you get bit.