Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, I was talking to the ASPCA...whatever it is, I'm not sure I can remember. Anyways, I was talking to them via email because I stumbled upon a statement on the internet by a high-profile representative of theirs that was, I would say, dispicable. It made the reptile industry seem like a world of barbarians, and even stated, clear as day, that the only winners in the reptile industry are those that profit from the sale of the animals. She also called husbandry of exotic animals a "foolhardy" trade. If you would like the name/email address of the person that made these accusations, or the website where I found this message, email me, because it seems drastically innappropriate to put it on a message board. I will only reveal the information to those who's intent is simply to email their polite thoughts on the situation.

Now for the NEWS ON BAN OF BOIDS. The people at the ASPCA (still not sure if that's what it is...I think it is) informed me that there was an error made in the bill that is shown on the internet currently, that states simply that all boids would be banned under the new law. Apparently it is being ammended to only include those boids that regularly grow longer than 14'. I still think it is outrageous that the only permits that will be available to own the banned reptiles are only available to liscense animals that were obtained before the bill is passed (I hope it isn't...and I'll get to that in a moment), it also will cost about $80 per year...per animal. I am certain that this is just another ploy to obtain more money from citizens.

Now, for just why I don't support the ban, and why no reptile enthusiasts should. It takes away our right to responsibly own the reptiles we desire (not all people are as irresponsible as those that the bill is targetting). All of that aside, I think the bill has much more re-tooling that needs to be done before they should have even thought about making it a priority. It just doesn't make sense if you really go through it and try to work it out. There are people out there that can, and should be able to own these animals. I know there are many people out there that own burmese pythons and give them the best care possible. There are also people out there that own burmese pythons and don't give them the proper care. That's why I think a permit system should be used, but they need to allow new animals to be purchased, and they need to allow (monitored and regulated) captive breeding of these animals. Also, something that just popped into my head. There are a couple of reptile places around here that sell boids, and occasionally have some burmese pythons for sale (the one place usually has mostly albino burmese pythons for sale, and usually with a hefty price tag...plus he doesn't sell them to just everyone that comes up with the money). What will happen to the burmese pythons at those shops if the bill is passed and they aren't allowed to sell them? These places are (usually) only equipped with cages to hold these snakes up to 10-12'. What will happen when they have 5-10 of them to deal with? I fail to see how a reptile shop, who is already struggling to survive, and who will be struggling even more if the bill is passed, could possibly handle or take care of that many giant snakes. It's the same thing with monitors. These places also sell black-throated monitors, as well as a few others (can't think of the rest, but there's a couple other ones), and the one shop I know of specifically has a few adults that they don't have the space for as it is.

I just think this bill is going to cause much more problems than it will solve.

What are your opinions on it?

In my opinion even passing a permit law will eventually lead to even more passed laws against the ownership of reptiles. Special interest groups and politicians are NOT ON OUR SIDE at all, and in fact would rather not let us have any exotic animals, not just reptiles !!! If we let permit laws pass nationwide then the next step will be the banning of certain species much like what has happened in the dog world with Breed Bans. If we give them this much they will take away more rights in the future , it happens all the time in this country. I hope that enough people speak up about this to prevent anyone from having to sell their animals just because some ignorant person says you can no longer own your animals, these people have no idea what we are doing with the animals they don't understand the time, money , and enjoyment that some of us have put into their projects! Just as always a few bad situations from irresponsible people make it hard for the responsible keepers to have whatever pet they are working with. However, I also do agree that not just anyone should own venomous snakes or huge constrictors , these animals can cause problems for those who are not experienced with them , and we as responsible breeders should be careful who we sell those types of animals to , that is just common sence. If we restrict who we sell them to then we don't need a bunch of laws or permits to keep it under control. Would you sell a pistol to anybody walking down the street??? I highly doubt it... So why would a person sell a venomous snake or 15 foot constrictor to someone who doesn't know how to safely keep it? If we were more responsible and selective about who gets these potentially dangerous animals we would all rest alot easier and the law would leave people alone because their wouldn't be any problems that would case any concerns to the masses. Just my opinion I guess, either way we all need to be responsible here or they will take the industry away from us at some point. We obviously don't need to give all this up because of irresponsible people or unwise lawmakers who don't have a clue about this industry, nor the facts about the difference between dangerous and harmless reptiles.... Anthony McCain-McCain's Reptiles.

The plain truth of it is...Something..will happen...eventually.
Idiots always screw it up for the rest of us.This is a fundamental truth of life.
So the more input that can provided to said officials by experienced keepers the better.Kill the myths/provide the facts.

anthony james mc ...
That reads like a great petition all in itself.
Where do i sign ?

...And...Honestly...who here would oppose "taking a course" in order to reach a compromise with the lawmakers ?
For that matter..who here would be the instructors? LOL

..

Most of my family and friends are scared of my snakes, and I think its from movies like "Python" "Anaconda" and such, same with invertebrates. People do need to learn fact and determine it from fiction.

This new ban hopefully will not spread to my part of the country (Arizona) and I see no reason for it to, sure some people aren't taking care of their large snakes properly, but that's what liscencing would stop, and yearly or so checkups by aspca.

Mostly though I think this is bull, I really don't think that people are going to want to deal with a 14' snake if they really don't want to, but they'll buy them small not thinking about the adult size, and the new law can prevent them from getting rid of the snakes when they are adults, which in turn enforces bad caretaking.

Lawmakers aren't thinking about the long-term effects of the law. Or even what this law is going to solve. All I can think of is in about a burmese lifespan from now there won't be any large snakes left in NY, in a couple more, the U.S.
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GOT HERPS?

did you call in yet and tell them that you oppose the proposed ban?

call 1-518-474-8390

it's very important that everyone call in and oppose this, as well as sending various emails (monthly?) to the governor's office. If the bill is passed (I'm hoping it won't), we'll have to strike with twice as much force as we need to now. If you read through the bill, it seems like it was written by someone that's obviously uneducated about reptiles that got it done in 10 minutes because they just don't care. It just doesn't make sense for the laws to be determined by those that don't understand what they're inforcing.

email here with your polite thoughts: http://161.11.3.75/

I think we should all also write letters too. Strike from every angle we can.

let's try to get this thing over with. I wish we didn't live in a world where a few bad caretakers can screw things up for everyone.

by the way, the ban is bill A02684

everyone that hasn't helped out yet, please try your best.

I can understand Tigers and Monkeys, but I've seen tonnes more cases of "domesticated" dog attacks than I've even heard of a pet poisonous snake getting loose and envenomating someone.

And what's with the banning endagered animals, some species only have a chance of surviving by captive breeding programs, which to my understanding of the bill would as well be abolished.

I guess this means no more WC in NY period without liscencing, which I can understand, to a point. And why would animal shelters be allowed to own the banned species, what are they going to do with them?

I guess you can forget the early introduction to exotic species, 21 to get a liscence is bull, it should be at least 18. Though the four hour course for liscencing ain't bad, I bet the fee will be.

I was reading through the bill while writing this, and man, does it get specific, but I haven't found the 14' rule.
-Matt
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GOT HERPS?

the 14' rule is an amendment they are supposedly making to the bill currently.

The way I read it, it seemed as though you could only get a permit for these species if you already have them in your possession, meaning you couldn't obtain new animals. Is this how you percieved it? The no breeding part is complete BS, and it's because the person that wrote the bill doesn't understand that the hobby depends on captive breeding to survive. Many people still think that most of these reptiles are being wild caught, but we have been making big steps forward trying to rid the industry of wild caught specimens.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. This bill is not ready to go through. I could understand putting the bill through if it still allowed you to get virtually every reptile you wanted as long as you take an appropriate course or test first. That would make sense. This ban is just a clever scheme to make money for the next few years (I hear the permits will cost $80 per year).

It's just plain stupid, and I think everyone, regardless of where you're from, needs to help keep this bill from passing. I think what we really need is some good, experienced large snake/large monitor keepers to get on the news and explain why the bill shouldn't be supported (unless changes are made).

Exactly, we need experts on the subject to review the bill not some clowns that are scared of reptiles.
I wonder who even proposed the bill.

By the way, I've E-mailed Pataki and am waiting for a response. (like it'll ever come)
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GOT HERPS?

I live in mesa, just south of the salt river.

I'm in Glendale, but right on the border of west Phoenix, 43rd ave.
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GOT HERPS?