Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The dad, not the kid. The snake was, doubtless, a black rat snake. May their farm and house be overrun with vermin!

I had to read that article twice.I thought it was a joke at first.Now Im just in shock.My eight year old owns a 20 gauge and he knows were I would stuff it if he shot anything that isnt in season,let alone a snake.And what really makes me want to projectile vomit is that there proud of it.Got an addy for that paper.I feel like sending them a little rebuttal.They had the snake safetly outside then he let her murder it.

anybody got a good hungry retic? I think it would be a good idea to swamp that newspaper with letters since they think it is such a nice thing that rodent did...(Deliverance Banjo Player Breeds! should have been the headline)

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Oh my god!!!!!! How? How could you kill something so magnificent! Even if you have a fear of snakes... you'd have to have no respect for just about anything. I think we have a future serial killer on our hands! I have a phobia of dogs, a really bad one, and I'd never dream of killing a dog. I feel like I've lost a limb. I wouldn't mind writing a persuasive letter to these people.

DAVE

Give a 7-year old a loaded revolver and sooner or later you'll have a Darwin Award candidate. I don't care how much practice or training this girl has had, it's going to happen. Let's just let Evolution carry out justice.
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MichaelB

np

I seriously want the address...or even jst the name of the newspaper. I can get the address. This is another case of being scared due to ignorance. What really upsets me is that this newspaper seems to promote the idea that snakes should be killed, venemous or non. I am probably a little different from some other people on this idea, but I think that if a snake is venemous and around your house, it is a good idea to shoot it, I mean I don't want one biting my ankle as i walk out of the door one morning.

Fear what there is to be feared. Don't fear what has no right to be. If you do fear it, learn more about it and release your ignorance on the subject. Because that's what it is, probably close to 95% of anybody's fears are due to ignorance.
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -Unknown

Hi, ya'll. I have done some investigative reporting myself and tracked the article down to one newspaper in Hampton Roads, VA. However, I just got finished talking to the reporter, Bill Baskervill, who says the article appeared in "hundreds of newspapers throughout the south." Baskervill, an AP reporter since 1968, told me that you may contact him personally for feedback. Here is his info:

Richmond
700 E. Main Street, Suite 1380
Richmond VA 23219-2684
(804) 643-6646
643-6223 Fax

Email: bbaskervill@ap.org

Baskervill also said feedback can be sent to any one of the newpapers that printed his story. The email address for feedback for the Hampton Roads Daily Press is outfront@dailypress.com. Their web address is www.dailypress.com.

The incident in the article took place in "rural Nottoway County about 50 miles southwest of Richmond." I don't live in Virginia, but judging from maps, the Hampton Roads Daily Press may be the closest rag to the location where the incident occurred.

You may access this article at www.dailypress.com in their archives. Registration is free.

The paper that services that area is "The Richmond Times- Dispatch." Their general e-mail adress is: feedback@TimesDispatch.com.

I live in the Hampton Roades area. The two papers in this area are "The Virginian-Pilot" (www.pilotonline.com). The other paper that covers Hampton and Newport News is the "Daily Press" (www.dailypress.com) I didn't see the article in The Pilot. I think it came from the "Richmond Times-Dispatch."

This is scary on two fronts.

First is the totaly unneccessary killing of the snake.

What is really scary is that this 7 year old is being taught that if something makes you angry...shoot it and it will be fun and you are praised in the news for doing it.

Look at her statements... "I was mad"..."it was fun". Think of a child who is taught that this is good....

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

The problem here is one of education. There are still too many people that think "The only good snake is a dead snake.". This is where school programs can help. If the education system in that part of Virginia would hire a Herpetologist (or a knowledgeable hobbyist) to go around to the schools and conduct programs featuring the native reptiles of the area, that little girl may have had a whole different approach to her problem. She may have even taught dad something.

The dad is also woefully negligent in allowing (teaching) his child to indiscrimately kill animals. Hunting is not a problem. Teaching your kids to safely handle and respect firearms at an early age (especially if they are likely to be frequently around them) is a good thing. Teaching them to use the gun to kill something for no good reason is definitely not a good thing.

didn't the article say the snake was stealing eggs from the henhouse? Isn't that reason enough to kill the snake?

Different scenario.. lets say you are running a daycare in your home. You have 15 children in your fenced in back yard playing. A pit bull (or coyote even) gets through the fence and attempts to drag one or two of the children bloodily into the woods. Do you shoot the dog or ?!?!?!?

I think education is the key here but you can't really blame the farmer for doing what was he thought was right.

kk

Any farmer with a brain in his head knows that Ratsnakes eat Rats. Stealing eggs was not a good excuse because he could safely catch it.

It could have safely been relocated as the farmer knew it was harmless.

He is teaching his daughter that it is fun to kill things.

He is also teaching her that shooting something that makes you angry is a good thing.

And they wonder how come so many of our children solve their problems by killing..

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I hear what you are saying and agree. I'm just surprised to see all the kneejerk reactions to some white trash morons killing a snake. It happens every day and there is not a lot the likes of people like us can do about it other than educate, educate, educate.

kk

I don't think education is the answer. That's become a cliche in our society for all kinds of deviant behavior. How many times have you heard some dumbass politician say, "We need to educate the public"? These people already knew that the snake was harmless. They had already removed it from the precious golden eggs. Why kill it? The answer is stiff penalties and the enforcement of the law. The gratuituous killing of reptiles should be punishable by fines and imprisonment. Snakes are valuable assets to the ecosystem. For example, India has laws banning the killing of cobras because they keep the rodent population in check. Hit these sadists where it hurts, in their pocketbook. $10,000 fine and six months in the slammer oughta be about right.

I have to disagree. I think your outrage over the incident is justified, but I do believe that this was done out of pure, unadulterated ignorance. And..it happens many times every day. These folks have been taught all their lives that all snakes are bad and need to be killed immediately. They very likely have never even been presented, or considered the other side of the argument and probably don't know beans about conservation or preservation of the species or natural balances or ecosystems or anything that most people with more than a 6th grade education are familiar with. Unfortunately, in this case, education has to occur in reverse...you have to teach the kids and let them try to educate their parents.

As a teacher of young children, I have to agree with you, Frank.
Our society in general condones violence on so many levels that kids grow into the mindset you've described as if it is natural. Watch kids on a playground--they stomp insects, pull leaves and branches off of trees, uproot plants and pull apart earthworms. They don't even have to be angry at something to kill it--sadly just being able to is reason enough.
regards,
carol

I'm a high school teacher. I disagree that this society "condones violence on so many levels." What level? Name them. Kids tearing apart earthworms and pulling the leaves off of trees is normal. Kids are supposed to do that. It's in the manual. I remember doing it when I was a kid. I remember other kids doing stuff like that with me. However, over the past 50 years this country has become so feminized that many people are "horrified" when some kid pulls leaves off a freakin' tree. I guess that means he's a sociopath and future mass murderer. [Are you a Michael Moore fan?] I doubt the girl that shot the snake will grow up to be a killer. What bothers me is the father. He removes the snake from the hen house and has his daughter execute it. Hunting is fine, but that's not hunting. It's wanton destruction.

Michael Moore has fans? I thought he was his only fan.

I agree with you on this, Doorgunner. That's what kids do. It's unfortunate for the earthworm, but...that's life. And I think more leaves are blown off trees in one thunderstorm than all the kids tear off trees in a whole year. I'm not sure what the importance of the leaves thing is anyway...I don't think a kid has ever killed a tree by pulling the leaves off. And...what difference does it make if a kid tears a worm in half? I impale hundreds of them on fishhooks. I guess now I'm supposed to be concerned that the worm feels pain when I do that....or that the fish feels pain when I set the hook...maybe they do. I dunno. But, as long as they are subtle about expressing it I won't worry too much about it. I don't think any of that is going to twist a kid's mind to the point he's going to be the next Ted Bundy. However, I do think that teaching a kid that it's OK to shoot a harmless (and beneficial) snake because it's in the chickenhouse, and actually participating in the act, sends the wrong message to the kid. If it's OK to do that, then is it OK to shoot the neighbor's dog because it poops on your yard? If it's OK to shoot the dog, is it OK to shoot the kids stealing watermelons out of the garden? Is it OK to use a gun to settle a dispute with anyone or anything that angers you? I have no problem with guns (I own several) or hunting (I do that, too). I do have a problem with using guns out of anger. Self defense or the defense of one's family is another matter entirely. That's not what this is about.

It is what kids do? Yeah, I remember those sick little rodents who did things like that. The ones I knew usually graduated to people and turned into the school bullys. For the record, I was a big kid who didn't torture animals or people or fun, because my parents got involved.

The excuse nowadays that it is "not their fault seems to be the catch all for lack of responsibility on behalf of parents and society to excuse the lack of effort to teach kids what is right or wrong.

Did I ever torture a bug? Yes and my Dad made sure I would never do it again.

Give a child access to guns before she is old enough to understand Death and you are teaching her that killing is fun... Also as (repeatedly stated) she is being taught that guns are good to releave anger and fear.

Where I am at, we had a 12 year old boy who beat to death a six year old girl because he could not make the connection between fake (Pro wrestling)vilolence and the actual results of the moves he saw. After all, the wrestlers all showed up healthy on the next show.... The same goes for our increasingly violent TV and videos... We average one weapon scare a week here. Kids with guns, knives...coming to school to solve their problems...

In answer to your statement about animal torture; Sorry, it is NOT what Healthy KIDS do. That answer is just another excuse.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Frank,
I have to wonder about the connection between TV violence and real violence amonst kids. I mean, I know there is some connection and there is some influence, but I have to wonder if these kids wouldn't get in trouble anyway. What is it that keeps all of the rest of the kids that play the video games, watch wrestling, watch the violent movies, etc., from doing the same thing? If it has such a profound effect on one, why wouldn't it have a similar effect on the rest? It just seems to me the ones that get into trouble were predisposed to that. Maybe something in the parenting in early childhood? I don't know...

When I was a kid, I knew many, many kids that stomped bugs, put salt on slugs, broke worms in half, burned ants with magnifying glasses...yadayadayada. Was it right? Nope. Did any of them turn out to be serial killers (other than bugs)? Not a one. They firmly knew the difference between stepping on a bug and shooting a human. In fact, the two people that I knew while growing up that did eventually murder someone were both quiet, reclusive kids. To my knowledge neither of them ever touched a worm, much less pulled one apart. One beat his brother to death with an aluminum baseball bat and the other cut his girlfriend's throat, wrapped her in a sheet tied with antenna wire and tossed her in a bayou. Maybe other people have seen a connection between killing bugs and killing people, but I never have been able to see it, at least assuming a normally functioning mind to begin with. If there isn't a normally functioning mind to begin with, then how can you possibly apply a logical progression to violence? There is no logic to start with. I think that these people would have eventually done what they did regardless of what they watched.

Anyway, it's obvious to all of us that the parenting in this case is seriously lacking.

Think it through...

Because it works in more than one simple direction. Those reclusive kids usually become so, because their peers rejected them for not fitting in. Bully's always pick on the weak and less socially gifted. Abused kids look to defend themseves or get even. our media shows them ways that the physically weak can use.

Look at the gangsta mentality...it attracts kids that feel helpless. these kids are like the little girl because they learn guns and death are cool and the way to solve problems. And again, they learn it with no one to teach them what death really is.

What you are talking about is yet another dimension of the problem. You can't drop a simple label on it. But one thing is true. People who learn to kill young have less respect for death (and life) then children that are taught the value of it. Those children who kill bugs and small animals usually don't become mass murderers, but when you raise a child to enjoy killing that has that different mindset, Then you create a Ted Bundy (who abused animals as a boy.)or cause a Columbine.

Remember most serial killers began as abused kids. And display excessive abuse to other children...as well as ANIMALS. My wife is doing her thesis on serial killers at FAU (their research is the source for my statements).

Again: accepting torture of animals as normal is a big mistake.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Good points.

Agreed. There are some who will argue that super hero play is developmentally appropriate for young children. Yet, super heros routinely use aggression/violence to overcome others they perceive to be bad.

If I stand by and knowingly allow my students to torture worms, I am as guilty of condoning senseless killing as that father who dragged the snake out to be executed. The difference is that my role in the killing is passive rather than active. Then, if I allow super hero play and someone gets clobbered, the super hero goes to time out. What does this teach? That it's not okay to hurt other people for fun, but it is okay to hurt/kill animals for fun?

Logic dictates that a 4 year-old who finds torturing worms to be a satisfying past time without consequences will move on to other victims once the worms become boring. Your wife's research , I'm sure, will support this position.

In response to a earlier post, no I am not a Michael Moore fan per se. But I do know that when a kid gets expelled for bringing a pocket knife to school, but only suspended or put in detention for punching another student in anger, grown ups are sending the wrong message. It isn't until the victim hits his head and receives a brain injury that suddenly the act is at a level of attempted manslaughter or worse.

Human beings are constantly juggling with what degree of aggression/violence is acceptable in a given situation. Ergo, we cannot help but condone violence to some degree, and make rules/laws which attempt to define and temper it. Those of us who are teachers are faced with situation ethics of this type every day.

We have leopard geckos, a snake, and a tree frog in our classroom. We raise crickets and meal worms. My kids are introduced to the food chain. They know that the lizard eats a cricket, not for fun but for food. We have discussed the concepts of alive and dead. At the beginning of the year, a loose cricket would be hunted down and stepped on. By the end of the year, a loose cricket is captured and put outside in the grass.

We don't hug trees, but we do attempt to leave leaves and bark intact. RESPECT and KINDNESS are not ugly concepts, and if attempting to teach them makes me a fool, so be it. Yet, if I thwart one child from growing up to enjoy indiscriminate killing of any creature, then my foolishness has served a purpose.

althea

but it seem like there may be a slight difference between a coyote attacking children and a harmless (to humans) snake eating an egg or two....I'll have to think about it and get back to you.

Of course there is a difference. But I was just playing devil's advocate and trying to point out that this person's reaction to the rat snake (while different than what most of us snake keepers would have done) was actually justifiable in his mind. Like someone said above, its all about educating people.

kk

Write the paper...write the reporter. publisizing this in the papers was irresponsible and stupid.

What I said in my above posts is what is really serious here. I live in an area where once a week a weapon is found on a school child. Praising a child for killing is programing her that it is ok to kill if you get angry. Think I'm joking? Since when do you teach a kid to kill before they are old enough to understand what that means?

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Using a less drastic analogy: What if a mouse or rat were stealing money from your bank account? Would that feel more like a justified killing than a snake stealing eggs? Rodents too are a unique and required segment of any ecosystem, but would you feel the same empathy toward a rodent if it were stealing a portion of your income on a weekly or monthly basis? This is the monetary argument for justification: These people were protecting part of their livelihood, i.e, eggs. However, being educated and empathetic reptile enthusiasts, we don't feel that this killing is justified. We know that there are other means of dealing with such a scenario, but it is tough to require non-herp people to agree with our beliefs. The call for education in this thread is justified and warranted, but I think it is a bit of a pipe dream to believe that we will ever completely erase thousands of years of fear and misconception regarding snakes. Just my opinion.

Excuse me for pounding a point...But doesn't anyone see anything wrong with a parent that thinks it's ok to teach a child to kill before she can even understand what that means?

Or what about a seven year old girl who thinks shooting animals is fun and that killing is the right way to resolve her anger?

I feel badly about the snake, but the girl is the real issue here. What kind of child is being raised here.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I think you're talking apples and oranges with your different scenario. Eggs vs. children? The mighty hunter and his daughter weren't in a life-threatening situation. A few eggs don't warrant killing the snake unless, of course, the goose that laid the golden eggs put them there. Judging the snake by moral standards is a stretch. I don't think God endowed black rat snakes with a conscience. They're not thieves but survivalists.

I think you're talking apples and oranges with your different scenario. Eggs vs. children? The mighty hunter and his daughter weren't in a life-threatening situation. A few eggs don't warrant killing the snake unless, of course, the goose that laid the golden eggs put them there. Judging the snake by moral standards is a stretch. I don't think God endowed black rat snakes with a conscience. They're not thieves but survivalists.

I think you missed my point?? You are rather quick to insinuate that eggs are less important than children, and of course you are correct. You probably didn't hesitate for a second in making that decision. Well to the uneducated fool and his daughter, they most likely made their decision to kill the snake based on the same train of thought. To that guy and his daughter the snake's life was meaningless compared to the value of those and other eggs. That is all I was trying to say. I'm not trying to argue that his actions were right, but rather I was trying to say that not everyone thinks like we snake people do.

Ever kill a spider? I don't. But I know plenty of "snake" people that routinely kill every spider they see. Why? Are snakes more valuable than spiders? To a snake person they probably are, but ask a spider person and you will get a different answer.

Just food for thought guys and gals.

kk

I get your point. And, it's good to try to understand how these folks think (or, actually don't think). Maybe if you can understand their simpleton reasoning you can figure out a way to turn on that dim light deep within the recesses of their alleged brains.

And...no, I don't kill spiders. I do relocate them frequently. We have tons of Black Widows around here. They are not my favorite critters, but I do consider them beneficial. I have also taght our kids not to kill them, but to call me and I'll relocate them. I do admit to believing that snakes are more important than spiders, but that's because (as you said) I'm a snake guy.

The thing to do is what Frank (rearfang) said. Email or write the reporter of this story and the newspapers that ran it and let them know how ecologically irresponsible that article was. Who knows, maybe even they have a light that can be ignited in whatever gray matter they may possess.

Come on, Ken. I appreciate what you're trying to say, and I don't kill spiders, either. You gotta admit, though, that some species are more valuable than others. There are a lot of variables involved, such as population of the species and its ability to reproduce enough offspring to offset losses in that population. Put a spider in one scale and a black rat snake in the other and I don't think there is equivalence. Granted, black rat snakes are not a threatened species, but the good they do in the environment still outweighs killing them for "thievery" and, IMO makes them more important than spiders. For argument's sake I'll admit that killing a black rat snake is preferable to killing an eastern indigo. The idiot dad knew what he was killing. The eggs were just a pretext for letting his daughter cap something again. I wonder who called the media about this, anyway. I'll bet it was the proud dad.

3 years ago I was bitten by a brown recluse as I was turning over in bed. I have yet to be bitten by a snake doing the same thing. No I dont live in a poor neigberhood with plenty of holes, I live in a 4 year old home in a nice suburb so it wasnt through just trashy living. Hell I fell asleep with my snake in my bed before, lol. She was there when I woke up, didnt bite me even when i rolled over on her.

Point is...will I kill a poisionous spider? YES! Will I kill a snake that is venemous? YES! Will I kill a human who is running at me with a 22? YES! (if I can). The point here is self-survival. It is one of your basic senses. You do what you can to survive. I will not permit a brown recluse or black widow to live in my house, I will not permit a cottonmouth moccason to live in my house, as I will not permit a serial murderer to do the same. It doesn't matter what it is, if it can and will possibly attempt to kill me...I DON'T WANT IT!

No matter how much I would like to make everyone like me and say "oooh i wouldn't hurt a spider!", that's not true.

Also, how many cockroaches have you squished? You know thats a delicacy in certain 3rd world countries?

How many black (common)/Yellow/Horse flies do you kill?

How many honeybees do you kill?

What about Wasps? Mosquitoes? Gnats? Dirt daubers? Carpenter bees? What makes these any better than a snake or spider?

Before we all get self-rightous on this subject, let's all realize how guilty we all are.
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -Unknown

I don't kill spiders because they have some benefit to me. The eat other bugs, so I won't be troubled with having to kill them.

I kill flies, mosquitos, gnats, fire ants, roaches, etc. en masse. I make a wholehearted attempt to turn them single-handedly into endangered species. It doesn't work, but I try. By the way, if anyone in another country wants to eat these things, please email me and I'll see what I can do about mailing you a smorgasbord.

I don't kill snakes of any description, venomous or not. If I find a Cottonmouth or a Rattlesnake in an area where I don't particularly want it, I relocate it to another area within 1/4 mile of my property. I relocated 11 Canebrake Rattlesnakes and 3 Cottonmouths last year and I have relocated 2 Canebrake Rattlesnakes so far this year. I have only been fortunate enough to find 2 Eastern Diamondbacks on this particular piece of property in the 10 years I've owned it (my property is in an area where the ranges of Crotalus adamanteus and C. horridus overlap). I've found a few more of them on another piece of property 7 miles away, though. I only relocate them if they are within 100 feet of the house. If they are further away than that, I simply let them continue on their way.

Let me clarify.

I don't kill spiders unless they are poisonous. And close to my place of residence.

I don't kill snakes uniless they are venemous, and close to my place of residence. However I would be willing to reloate them, it's just in my area 1) I know nobody who knows how to do this, therefore nobody to teach me. 2) I don't know how this is done, and I don't want to try it without a trained experienced person to help me out.

well let's see. flies and ants are around for decomposition of various dead organic compounds. Want to live in an earth with piles of sh*t? Be my guest.

I know that off the top of my head. I don't know the purpose of the others off the top of my head, but I will look up tomorrow after I get off work. It's late and i'm tired.

And just so everyone knows. I am not an animal rights activist. I do my fair share to help the extermination of flies, bees (except honey), wasps, aunts (bad joke lol). They do good in the overall scheme of things, but not in my backyard. If there is a dead organic compound, I throw it in the toter and let the garbage man take care of it, lol.
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -Unknown

First off I want to say that I think this discussion is very interesting, especially as it concerns how we "snake people" treat other animals in this world.

Reading this post, I find it interesting that I may be the only person here that doesn't kill any animal (except those animals that I indirectly kill through my purchase of meat at the store). If I find a spider, mouse, fly, whatever, in my house that I don't like I merely leave it alone or take it outside. (Well, actually, I'm being hypocritical, so I need to amend this, because I do kill the few carpenter ants I've seen in the house, though I do tell the ant (yes, I'm neurotic and I talk to the ant) before I kill her that I hate to kill her but that if she's going to come in my house and eat it out from under me I see no reason not to kill her. But that's it, just carpenter ants.)

I do think it's horrible that the father let his daughter kill the snake and if this girl isn't going to be a major problem for general society, she may just decide when she grows up to be THE person to stop the hobby of owning snakes (if it doesn't come sooner). That's what scares me.

I do think that education is the answer, though it wont stop the killing of all snakes right away.

As an example, my husband's grandparents live in "hick country" and used to kill every snake they came across. Now that I've joined the family, they are a bit more forgiving. Now only the copperheads are killed, while the racers, black rats, etc. are merely relocated. I still feel horrible for the copperheads, but at least they are moving a step in the right direction.
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alstiver@hotmail.com

1.0 2001 Coral snow cornsnake
0.1 2002 Pastel Ghost poss Het Amelanistic cornsnake
1.1 2002 Bloodred cornsnakes
0.1 1998 Het Hypo, Het Caramel cornsnake
1.0 2000 Hypo Het Caramel cornsnake
0.0.13 2004 Eggs (potentially normals, hypos, caramels, and ambers)

Are the kids the pitbull drags away good or bad?

1. The killing of the snake was completely unwarranted.

2. The father is, at least in the categories we have knowledge of, doing a poor job of teaching his daughter right from wrong.

3. The reporting and publishing of this article were irresponsible and damaging.

We may disagree to some extent on some of the reasons for the behavior and seem to have gotten a little off track, but we do agree on the key points regarding the story.

Now, let's make sure that the newspapers involved and the reporter are deluged with emails and snail-mails.

>>so you equate chicken eggs with children?
What am I missing here?
You really think it is OK to kill a snake because it eats a few eggs?
You are definitely in the wrong hobby and forum.
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Remember, My posts are MY opinion only!
Jimmy (draybar)

I just call it breakfast.Just like that ratsnake had a few eggs.
kk is trying to compare apples to moose droppings.I bet as a kid he used a magnifing glass just like the rest of us and tortured and maimed hundreds of poor ants.

Mr. Bill Baskervill

I read an article you wrote about a 7 yr old girl killing a non-venomous snake she found getting a couple eggs out of the hen house. I have multiple problems with this post.

1) "It made me mad" "It was fun. He gave me the gun and I shot it." This sounds like it came from a very deeply emotionally troubled child. This kid needs help with her emotions, anger in particular, and does NOT need to be praised for such activity!

2) This snake was not "stealing eggs from the family's hen house." Snakes do not have a conscience that anyone is aware of. It was merely trying to survive, just as you or I would.

3) You made this article a "hero type", making Miss Kayla Williamson the hero, against what you make out to seem a "big bad evil snake." This is not the case. This is a young girl, probably too young, to take out her anger by killing a living breathing animal.

4) Nothing was mentioned about the snake except it was "non-venomous." You should have emphasized the fact that it posed no threat whatsoever to the people, just looking for a meal. This is a normal practice that has been going on for thousands of years by snakes.

Now my real problem with this article is you are pretty much rewarding behavior a 7 year old doesn’t fully understand. My 7 year old 2nd cousin is wanting to learn how to go hunting, but I refuse to take him (I'm 21 years of age), for the simple reason I don't feel he can grasp the concept of what's going on. She doesn't either; she just knows that now it's not moving. What if this was a homeless guy trying to get some food? Would she want to do the same? What's the difference? It's a living breathing animal, trying to eat.

Another reason this article SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN PRINTED is because this promotes the ruthless murder of snakes in the wild. What people don't realize is that snakes are here for a reason. Black Rat Snakes (which this one most likely was), help control your rodent population. By printing this and publicly condoning the ruthless killing of such snakes will simply cause the rodent population to be outrageously high.

May the Williamson's house be overrun by filthy vermin.

I understand you probably will have quite a few emails expressing anger about this particular article, but I really would appreciate it if you would give me a reply.

Thank you,
Chris
Panama City, FL
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -Unknown

np
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I wanna see that guy reply as well.
Michael
Michael's Place

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Michael's Place FREE caresheets on colubrids check it out
Michael_Fedzen@hotmail.com

I am appalled!!

These people obviously don’t understand that, all it was doing was trying to eat. It wasn’t plotting against them or going to spread evil or deflower all the virgins, it just wanted food!!!!

I sent an email and letter. First off I don’t understand how this could be “NEWS” and secondly why are they proud of killing an animal for doing what it is supposed to do, like; FIND FOOD!!!!

I think he needs to do a story on the outraged community of people who are intelligent enough not to go around killing animals for fun!
Oh well, I guess…regardless, it won’t bring back that poor snake. Incidents like this just breed more fear and ignorance in people!

miya

Well,this kind of stuff happens every day.Rat snake enters a barn,farmer shoots it. It's ignorant especially since the farmers KNOW that the snake is harmless and could relocate the animal. Even if they put laws against killing any snake it would still happen.

What ticks me off is this so called 'Father' gives his 7 y.o daughter a loaded .22 calibur rifle with rat shot. Now he might think rat shot is safe but it can still kill. Espeically small children! Now I understand teaching kids about gun safety is the right thing to do but teaching them and letting them shoot any animal that they come across is just ignorant. Now this kid thinks shooting animals is fun and games. Hunting SHOULD and NEEDS to be allowed because deer over populate fast and wind up starving to death in the winter. It's more humane to hunt them down for food/sport rather then have them starve and suffer.But shooting a harmless black rat snake? First the dad drags it out of the barn with a stick JUST so the kid can shoot it and not only does this kid shoot the snake but good old daddy lets her shoot it a few more times!!

Lets say this 4 foot 7 y.o girl lost her grip on the rifile and shot herself or shoots her father by mistake? At 4 foot the kid definately is not that strong and could have gotten seriously injured or worse. This is why a lot of people in America are ignorant. I wouldn't be suprised if you see this family on the news one day about an accidental shooting or hunting accident. Gun safety is a must but I do not think a 7 y.o should be hunting deer or shooting snakes! You want to teach a kid how to shoot thats fine,let em use a less dangerous rifle like a pump action BB gun until they are around the age of 12 - 13 years old.

Now my father taught me how to shoot a bow and arrow when I was about 6 but I would never let my son near one until he is older. Don't get me wrong,I am a crack shot with a bow and arrow now(Hunting with a rifile is NOT sport IMO)but I could STILL be a crack shot AND learn about safety had my father waited until I was older to learn how to shoot it. My father NEVER let us shoot any animals either.(But I would sneak my BB gun out of the house and shoot pigeons and rats..lol) My dad is an avid hunter and only kills animals during HUNTING season. He use to take me snake hunting when I was a kid and never did he kill ANY snake and we use to see a lot of copperheads.

I read some post about the killing of other animals like flies,gnats,spiders,VENOMOUS snakes etc...

Anyway I WILL kill a black widow or a brown recluse spider if they are inside my house.Why you ask? Well these spiders are ULTRA small and can get into anywhere in your house. They HAVE been know to kill people and the brown recluse has been known to cause rot/ulcers at the site of a bite years later. I have small kids in my house so if I see one I will definately kill the thing.I was nailed by a black widow YEARS ago and let me tell you I felt like crap for days and had joint pain for a few weeks after the bite and I don't want my kids getting tagged by one.I am more worried about a recluse though. They aren't suppose to be in my area but they are(PA).2 years ago in Lancaster PA some kid on a petting farm was nailed by one that was webbed up on a bail of hay(they got the spider thats how it was confirmed that it was a recluse) I haven't seen any so far but I do have a lot of sac spiders/daddy long leg spiders/wold spiders and I let them be because they eat other insects I don't want around...gnats,skeeters and various other blood sucking insects!(Not the daddy long leg spiders that mostly ALL people think are spiders but are not..Those common dadyy long legs are called harvestmen and are an aracnid but not a spider.The 'daddy long leggers' in my house are true spiders and 'may' cause a rash or mild reaction if bitten but are generally non fatal.)

As far as venomous snakes go I have only ever killed one snake. I had a copperhead in a cabin in the Poconos and my son was 2 at the time. I opened the door and tried to sweep the snake out but he kept going back inside and fighting me the whole way. Now I know copper heads are passive but this thing was super aggressive. He actually made a charge at me more then once..not a strike a charge..I mean he would try to strike when he got closer but he actually slithered toward me for striking distance. Being that my son was around and this snake was a total nut case I killed him. I didn't have any tongs or anything to pick him up with and from the way he was acting I wasn't going near him at all. I tried to save him but he wasnt having none of it..he didnt want to leave the house and then acted like no other copper head I have ever seen...so he was asking for trouble,especially with my son around....

That's just parental instinct. I'm glad some people still have this (unlike the idiot father in the article, lol.) I put crushed mothballs around the perimiter of my yard to keep all snakes out, because I know my mom and grandma would kill any snake as soon as they see one.

The crushed mothballs work very well, and i've been told they don't cause harm to the snake, this is true, correct?
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -Unknown

Crush moth balls does not keep snakes away. Thats a very old myth. Only think that would deter a snake is a snake fence...they use em a lot on construction sites in areas where venomous snakes are...and these aren't full proof...all it is a fence with a cloth type of material around it..most snakes will just travel along it and not enter the property

Never tried it, but I think it would have some value because of the offensive smell.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

well they sell this product at home depot called snake-away, and that's nothing more than crushed up mothballs...but i havent had any in the yard since then so i dunno.

i was told it was because they dont like the way it feels on their stoumach
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -Unknown

I'm not familar with "rat shot" but its probably lead. If this is true, was she killing the snake in the hen house? Then one would guess that some of this shot is in the ground and could possibly be ingested by the chickens and now the chickens can get lead poisoning. Hmmm, just an all around smart move if you ask me.

You would have to hit a snake several times to kill it unless you pinned the head under the barrel.Those very small pellets bounce all over hell's creation unless your shooting into mud.She could have lost an eye.Then it would have been a different storyline.Girl maimed while trying to kill brutal egg thieving snake.

eh...they make ratshot with steel and lead bb's.

i told my grandpa about that story and he grew up in the farm in the 30's or whatever and back then he said that in the farming country (considering this was about 70 years ago), if a dog was caught eating eggs..."the dog would be gone. Nobody wanted an egg-sucking dog." He admitted to having killed snakes in the past for the same reasons, but you have to also think in the time he grew up....with the great depression and all going on...times were wayyyy different than they are now. currently our government pays farmers to burn their crops, food is not scarce. So he brought up points...just not good ones. lol.
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The reason mainstream thought is thought of as a stream is because it's so shallow. -Unknown

i stand strong on her being shot

I disagree. Farmers have the right to kill animals that are stealing the fruits (or eggs) of their labor.

Conrad