Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I shuold use yesterdays news pellets[organic pelets of old news paper.I said, 'wouldnt it cause impaction'.He said if he ate it.Wouldnt sand come out esier then bulky hard pellets?

I don't know if I would use the newspaper pellets. I use Critter Country pellets made from winter wheatgrass and several other fibers. www.mtnmeadowspet.com/crit.htm

What about the moisture your dragon is getting? Is it getting enough water?
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0.0.2 Bearded Dragons(Ziggy and Stardust)
0.1.0 Royal/Ball Python(Not named yet)

If you use critter country and like it then I suggest looking for Cat Country by the same manufacturer. According to them it is the exact same as Critter Country but about a third less expensive. I can't say how safe either would be if ingested as they do swell considerably when wetted and could cause impaction.
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Hope this helps.

BigT

sand does not dissolve or break down so it just lays in the intestinal track until it builds up like a dam bloking the exit. I dont like the idea of old newspaper pellets as they may degrade but they could also absorb moisture and I feel cause a blockage before they are passed on a little BD.

I do not recomend any particulate substrate for any BD under 10-12". Just use shelf liner, easy and simple
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Bennett

Home of the Florida Orange
www.beardiedragon.com

were do you get shelfliner.The sand doesnt even come out in droppings?

I honestly don't know what Breeders have done to Dragons to make them so stupid and their digestive systems so retarded when it comes to substrates and impaction. All sorts of animals have lived for eons on sand, grass, rocks, dirt, you name it.

But put a Dragon on anything but shelf liner and BAM! You have to run to vet. lol!!!!

Ok...I'm no Doctor.
But I still think it's a water issue. Enough moisture in the system, less chance of impaction. I would bet that most dragons in captivity have the wrong moisture balance in their systems and are ripe for impaction IF GIVEN THE CHANCE.
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0.0.2 Bearded Dragons(Ziggy and Stardust)
0.1.0 Royal/Ball Python(Not named yet)

>>I honestly don't know what Breeders have done to Dragons to make them so stupid and their digestive systems so retarded when it comes to substrates and impaction. All sorts of animals have lived for eons on sand, grass, rocks, dirt, you name it.
>>
>>But put a Dragon on anything but shelf liner and BAM! You have to run to vet. lol!!!!
>>
>>Ok...I'm no Doctor.
>>But I still think it's a water issue. Enough moisture in the system, less chance of impaction. I would bet that most dragons in captivity have the wrong moisture balance in their systems and are ripe for impaction IF GIVEN THE CHANCE.
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>>0.0.2 Bearded Dragons(Ziggy and Stardust)
>>0.1.0 Royal/Ball Python(Not named yet)
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AlphaDragonZ
www.AlphaDragonZ.com

I do believe that shelf liner reduces the chance of intestinal impaction greatly. But I also agree that vets have perpetuated a negative stigma against sand. I have raised many generations of Rosy Boas and several generations of BDs and have never had a problem with Sifted Childrens Playsand. I am sure that intestinal impaction is seen more often then it should be by vets but at the same time I feel it is many times an expression of underlying husbandry issues or parasites. It still amazes me how poor many reptile owners husbandry practices are.

Reptile owners need to look at their reptiles as pets and not ornaments in a collection or show pieces. I truly feel that if you polled average reptile owners they would not feel that there reptile is as important to them as their dog or cat. In addition many Lizard species take considerably more effort to maintain then dogs or cats who comparitively are much more self sufficient. This is a prime reason why people do not maintain the same level of husbandry for their reptiles as they do for their dogs and cats.

It is mostly for this reason that I buy only high quality stock and sell at a relatively high price just to avoid some of the people that will buy a reptile as a throw a way pet.

The views represented here are just my opinions so feel free to comment.

-Randy

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AlphaDragonZ
www.AlphaDragonZ.com

Well, this is my interpretation of the whole thing...

It's obvious that there are a lot of lizards who don't get impacted ever, and live their entire lives on sand with no problems. Lets say just for the sake of making up a number since I don't have any real statistics, lets say only 1 in 30 beardies ever suffer impaction from sand. The great majority have no problems, and for the most part it is a fine substrate.

But there is that few who do, so when people lose their pets to something like that, they are saying to themselves "if only I hadn't used sand! It killed my beardie and if it wasn't there he would be alive today." Well, that doesn't mean that any lizard that is put on sand will die of impaction, it just means that there is a risk. Maybe that risk is blown out of proportion, but either way there will be very protective people out there (like me) who don't even want to chance it.

The argument about beardies in the wild living on sand with no problems just doesn't hold water for me. Who is to say a beardie has never been impacted in the wild, are there any statistics on this? Wild animals are at risk of mortality all the time, whether it be from predators, exposure, ingestion of dangerous things, whatever. Sure there are a lot of them who survive and become healthy adults, just like the majority of beardies raised on sand in captivity do the same, but that doesn't mean impaction doesn't happen. It's just more of an issue in captivity because these are our pets. We want them to live as long as possible, so many of us choose not to expose them to any risks at all, whether that be a large risk like allowing a predator to get near them, or small risks like putting them on sand.

Anyways, that's just how I see it. I don't think people who keep their beardies on sand are doing anything wrong, obviously it works for a lot of people. I'm just saying there is nothing wrong with people who want to be overly cautious and use shelf-liner or paper towels and just not even take the chance.

Thanks for hearing my 2 cents.
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Amanda
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2.0 bearded dragons (Ocho / Domo-kun)
0.1 kingsnake (Rio)
1.0 ferret (Playstation)
1.0 cat (Wally)
0.1 dog (Tima)

That was mostly in response to Giantrobo's post about impaction. I do agree that the risks get blown out of proportion a lot so I was hoping to add my opinion on maybe why that happens.

And I want to say I agree w/ everything alphadragon said. I think you are a great breeder who cares about the wellness of these animals, and that's a wonderful thing! It always makes me happy to meet responsible breeders who care more about giving the animals a good home than making a quick buck. If only more were like that!
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Amanda
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2.0 bearded dragons (Ocho / Domo-kun)
0.1 kingsnake (Rio)
1.0 ferret (Playstation)
1.0 cat (Wally)
0.1 dog (Tima)

I'm in no way putting down folks who're "Overly Cautious". Impaction is an issue that we all have to be aware of.
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0.0.2 Bearded Dragons(Ziggy and Stardust)
0.1.0 Royal/Ball Python(Not named yet)