Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Snuggles died tuesday after being literally cooked to death. The pet store I got her from told me to use a 100 watt bulb instead of the recommended 50. She died in my hands and I got a replacement as part of the 7 day guarantee. I don't like him.

How am I supposed to tame a Nile when the little bugger won't stop crapping, hissing and trying to bite me? Even after he 'calms' down, he uses every chance he gets to poop on me. Although he's in better condition that Snuggles was when I first got her, I've only handled him once and not even for five minutes. I've read a few monitor books as well and all of them say that without proper handling, Niles get to be big and nasty. How do I get him used to me to the point where he stops thinking of me as something that's going to eat him? Even my baby Emperor calms down after a few seconds in my hand.

And put it in the freezer now. From this post and the thread below it is clear that you have no business keeping animals.

So just because I received wrong information which led to the deal of a a moniitor, I should kill a perfectly healthy albeit pissy other?

It's you who shouldn't be allowed to keep animals if you're so eager to kill them. I've never kept a lizard other than a chameleon before and I'm new to monitors. Yes, my inexperience let to a death that could have been prevented and I admit that. I've successfully kept several Emerald tree boas, scorpions, a red tail boa and four pairs of Jackson's chameleons.

If you can't offer any useful advice, just keep your mouth shut. Don't be asinine.

Go to www.proexotics.com and read the water monitor and Ionides monitor care information and apply it accordingly to your new monitor. They may not be exactly the same species but similar care is required and they have great info on monitors. Once you get the "ideal" setup leave it alone (no handling) for like a month then start slowly handling it and if it is in its "hide spot" NEVER disturb it. You will recieve many poops and whips and bites with a baby Nile and that is normal but be very patient and then he may calm down. Keep in mind out of all of the monitor the Niles tend to be a bit more fiesty than others.
Hope you have better luck with you new Nile.

D

I would say since you came on here got great advice and ignored it you are to blame.

Sorry but you can only chop at a tree for so long, Once you realize it is petrified you tend to move on.

Next time try being more like a sponge and soak up all the information and advice your given.

As for taming the nile, if you wanted a tame monitor you picked the wrong species. To repeat what I told someone else. "There are exceptions but it is easier to find a needle in a box of needles then in a bail of hay."

this is what worked for me as far as taming & mind you i've only dealt with a real small amount of niles like 2 or 3.......i owned one & my buddy gave me his which he said he couldn't handle anymore because it was soooo nasty. I don't pick them up right away. I move all the hides & start petting the nile around the lower stomach/hide leg/tail area...they would run & hiss & keep doing so but after about 15 minutes or so the one's i've delt with seemed to stop hissing & freaking out. Once they get like that I would lift thier lower third by putting my hand under their hind legs where the tail base meets & I would just hold it slighty elevated & let the nile keep walking around with it's front 2 legs. I feel that this gives it more comfort in being touched because it's not held & restrained....after a couple minutes of that I haven't had a problem holding them for a little while.Only hold it in the cage for now because if he decides to make a break for it you will only be a couple inches off the cage floor & this will prevent harm to it & also it may feel calmer knowing that it is still in it's home. They never tried to bite me once.....just remember you look like a predator to a baby nile so you have to work at getting it to trust you won't eat or harm it. & get you husbandry right. If things aren't at best conditions you can expect an angry animal. good luck & do alot of reading,

I don't have problems with my niles. Also your way of making it sound like your a nile whisperer sucks if you ask me. 2-3 animals keep trying your process. It takes more then that to prove something works.

If your ever in Fl. come over and feel free to play with my niles anytime I am sure you'll get bit at some point.

As I said there are some calm ones but not often. So I'd rather tell everyone what is more likely to happen. If they then still decide to get a nile it is less likely to be tossed to the side after it bites them.

Of course if anyone has knowledge of basic animal behavior, then they will know to gain the animals trust. Then decide how far that animal will allow you to push it. Some will let you walk all over them others will not let you go to far.

I made this large board, and strap the monitor to the board. In the past I used duct tape, but now I use velcro straps. I use one strap on the head and one over the legs and two over the body, plus several over the tail.

The key to having this work is, allowing the monitor to settle down after being strapped down. Leave the monitor alone for an hour or so. I know monitors love this because after a while they close their eyes and fall asleep. Anyway, after an hour, you first pet the monitor everywhere very gently, then once it falls asleep, you pet it very roughly, this wakes it up, but then it falls back to sleep again.

I even made shoulder straps for the board so I can carry it around, you know to the bank or the mall, or to baseball games. That allows the monitor to understand being in public.

I want to find out what native americans called their backpack they carried their babies in. You know, the ones where they were strapped down. Then I want to sell the backpacks in pet shops and over the internet and such.

This has worked everytime for me, yes, every time. Do you think it would work for you. I bet it would. Jody, I would even give you some and use you for advertising. I even made little tiny ones for caudolineatus. thanks FR

duct tape the lizzard to a board and you have a travel pet

When I first started with monitors, I took one to a local herp vet and he strapped it down with duct tape. I asked about that and he said, its not a snake, it doesn't hurt them(true story) I also read a study done on V.panoptes, done in NT, where they duct taped radios to monitors tails(another true story). So it must be OK hey? I also read a paper on thermo tolerances in monitors, the well known author, taped monitors to boards and left them in the sun until they died. Then published what temp it took(another true story)

If you read my post, it said I graduated to velcro. Is that all you had to comment on? FR

I am kind of scared that the only vet around here that deals with reptiles has about that much intelligence... I knew more about herps from my self education via the internet then he did... I think he saw my sav as a brown iguana... I definately wouldn't have been surprised if the nimrod had busted out the duct tape...

now that I'm on the subject do you know of any good rep vets in Michigan?

Your just a crazy desert rat. Or so I have heard.

Maybe all that sun is getting to you?? hahaha

Do you use this method with your monitors before you sell them? that way you know everyone can have a tame puppy dog of a lap lizard to kiss and snuggle. haha

I would have thought you would have guessed our secret to breeding success.

We strap the male to one board and the female to another and slap them together. That way, you do not have to worry about them being socialized or fighting or raised together. Just slap the boards together.

Then a month later, slap the females board up against a wall and out come the eggs. Easy huh? FR

I have never been invited over to see this process.

I have never seen your pictures of these boards. Are they called Retes boards??

Maybe if you come to daytona we can talk more about this method over a few beers?? oh wait yeah it is rum and coke right?

I know of someone that could of used this taming method yesterday while digging up egg's.

From his reply to you below "1. You can defend what you are doing now, continue to post that you just can't seem to get it to eat and watch your monitor slowly die, then go buy another and start the whole process over"

I agree with the others i do not think your ready for a pet of any kind.

np

no advice? nothing to add other then to say I was negative?

Strange since I just posted a quote from someone else below. I am negative?? Whats that make the person that I quoted from???

Have you only read a few of my posts? maybe you missed the other couple hundred or more I have posted over the years. How many have you posted?

Oh yeah and thanks for the compliment but I got enough Fans already.

He was not negative. He was telling the truth. People should not buy niles without first realizing what they are getting into. Next thing you know this person will buy a croc monitor thinking those can be tame pets.
Niles are beautiful monitors but they are more of a look and don't touch animal.

So was 'Snuggles' a nice Nile? Did it not fuss around when you held it? Well now you know why... it was dying! Dying monitors make great lap pets. Well, since you turned Snuggles into Jimmy Dean Jerky... Have you made any adjustments to your setup at all? Did you get rid of the worthless screen? Did you set up an appropriate basking spot and temperature gradient that a monitor can use? Have you thrown out the baby food? Have you done anything besides fry poor Snuggles? Well, tell Snuggles #2 that I am sorry. He will know what I mean.

I did not see your first post down below and I also agree that you should not put a second monitor through this. I would give it to someone who has successful monitor experience.

So are you ready for a 6' long pissed off MONSTER that you are responcible for feeding and cleaning after? something capable of seriously injuring you or others?

that is the first question you need to ask your self before getting a LARGE monitor...

Then you need to set up the proper cage for them BEFORE you buy one... and before you can build/set up a cage you need to do lots of research on the Lizzard you are buying it for... read books... as many sources of INFO as possible because not all of it is good... you need to learn that some advise you get can be bad... this way you can set up proper temp gradient (around 150 degrees F hot to 80 degrees cold) and proper humidity for some kinds of monitors.

You also need to know about their diet... baby food won't cut it... expensive rats and insects are the ticket.

Oh yeah... they need a VERY large cage.. like 8'x4'x4' because that little sucker will be around 4ft @ 1year old if proper food and temps are there.

Moniters are very different from most other larger lizzards (Iguanas) little lone small lizzards and snakes.... They are much stronger and much more dangerous... what would you do with a 1 1/2 yr old 6' Nile Monitor that thinks you are the preditor... and is PISSED you keep it in a box? You have to be ready for that senario and be able to deal with it before you should even CONSIDER a monitor...

This post is not meant as an insult... it is the TRUTH... NO ONE should just buy a Nile on a whim EVER. Niles are one of the meanest and most aggressive monitors out there.. some have been tamed... but few

one question... did you know that you were getting one of the Largest and Meanest lizzards on the planet when you named yours "Snuggles"?

A good friend has a tame nile hes a 4ft monster that tail whips, hisses, is very jumpy, runs from you, and on rare occaision might bite you quick but its very rare to happen. He calms down after about 5 to 10 minutes of handling to where he doesnt try to run from you, instead he justs hisses and threatens if you move suddenly. He is tame nile monitor named Mason, look at the photo gallery under Jade4u if I remember. Your first nile was dead to begin with not tame most probably.

> How am I supposed to tame a Nile when the little bugger
> won't stop crapping, hissing and trying to bite me? Even
> after he 'calms' down, he uses every chance he gets to
> poop on me.

The simple answer is that you don't. It is all part of the Nile monitor package.

> Although he's in better condition that Snuggles
> was when I first got her, I've only handled him once and
> not even for five minutes.

This is what Nile monitors, especially young Nile monitors, do when they are healthy.

> I've read a few monitor books
> as well and all of them say that without proper handling,
> Niles get to be big and nasty.

Even with "proper handling" they get big and nasty. Niles are paranoid and you pretty much have to deal with that if you are going to own one.

> How do I get him used to
> me to the point where he stops thinking of me as something
> that's going to eat him?

By not handling it! Really. By handling it, you are training it that when it sees you, you will reach in and grab it. This scares the heck out of it - it is learning to associate you with bad things. Try to get it to associate you with good things, and this means not doing things to it that it does not like (such as handling). Try to build up trust with your lizard, rather than forced handling that will make it even more distrustful of you.

> Even my baby Emperor calms down
> after a few seconds in my hand.

Niles are not Emperors.

Good luck,

Luke

i can see that you are defensive, what you fail to understand is that you are posting in decades old "monitor code". what you have posted so far REALLY says (deciphering the code)...

"I have no idea about monitors and just went out and bought the biggest, meanest, lizard i could get (for cheap) and i don't have the first idea of how to care for it. What's next?"

what's next is you either kill your lizard, or lose your hand/nose/enthusiasm...

check out the link below, to our FAQ on why PE doesn't sell Nile Monitors, it seems perfectly written for you, and yet it is a number of years old. that is because you are FAR from the first person to get in WAY over their head with a Nile monitor. and the folks on the forum have seen it a thousand times before, and we already know the outcome, and no one likes to see another disposable animal.

take it all to heart, it is about the monitors, not you, and do your best with the situation you have created.

best of luck.
Why don't you sell Niles?

-----
robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

You cannot tame a nile. That is a basic nile reality. There are a few niles out there that are calm and tolerant of their owners. For every one of those, however, there are dozens that are not calm and tolerant and remain very defensive/aggressive and dangerous. You can fight this reality, but most keepers do not "win" this fight.

When you get a nile you have to understand and accept that you are buying a monitor that you can look at and care for but which will not want anything to do with you. He will always be unpleasant. He might approach you for food and then whip the hell out of you as soon as you toss in his food. He will try to bite, claw, whip, crap, and kill you. This is how nile monitors are for the most part. You have to accept that and deal with it.

You are actually probably making it WORSE by handling it now. There are very few reliable nile monitor information sites or books available. Much of the information you read is inaccurate. Most keepers learn that if they try to force their monitor to calm down and accept being handled, those monitors tend to turn out worse than if they would have been left alone.

If you REALLY want a lizard that will be calm and that you will be able to handle, then take your nile monitor back to the store and ask to trade it for something else. Nile monitors just do not calm down. That is part of what makes them fascinating. It is also what makes most people get tired of them.

You have to decide if you want to keep an animal that you are not going to be able to handle. It sounds like that is not what you want. Perhaps a different lizard is more to your liking. Just something to consider.

These are MINOR scratches from a 4 foot nile monitor.

-----
^x^ Bloodbat ^x^
Monitors, monitors everywhere
and all the food they ate.
Monitors, monitors everywhere,
their parents loved to mate.

I'd like to thank those who gave useful info and advice. As far as Snuggles went, she was VERY placcid and docile. She never pooped on me or hissed at me. She only bit me once when I was getting her out of the transport the pet shop provided. I could hold her in my hand and we'd watch tv until she'd fall asleep. She wasn't skittish nor did she spook when I moved her to a different cage. And the name Snuggles came from my boyfriend's mom because she said I was the type who'd have a komodo dragon or an alligator and name it Snuggles or Fluffy. That's where it came from and Snuggles was really sweet for a Nile.

As for Godzilla, I handling him briefly yesterday so he could swim in a utility sink while I cleaned out his cage. His appetite is good and I have him on a 14 hour light cycle since days in Africa during summer are longer. The light is 50 watt and the temp stays at and even 87 unless I add a 20 watt ceramic heat lamp, then the temp is up to 94. The cool end is just under 76 but he seems to stay under his hide log unless he's in his water dish.

My take on being bitten or scratched by him isn't really a problem since I've been bitten by several Emeralds, a HUGE snapper who tried to take a chunk of my calf out and several snakes found in Michigan, even a Massasauga rattler. Been bitten by an adult caimen too and that sucked a lot. Never been stung by an Emperor yet and I've had four of them. Pain and blood doesn't really bother me and if I do need stitches or medical help, both of my parents are doctors and they can get me in to see an ER doc within seconds.

I didn't purchase a Nile just because it got to be big. If I wanted to buy a reptile just because it got big, I'd go buy an anaconda and a saltie or Nile croc. I bought a Nile so I could have experience with a lizard other than a chameleon. And price isn't really an issue since I own a 2400$ high melanin phase Emerald. So bite me if you think I bought it cuz it was cheap and going to get big.

You can also bite me if you've spoken negatively about Snuggles. If I knew you, I'd probably clock you for running your mouth. Don't take it out on her cuz yer mad that I didn't follow your advice even though it was different from what someone else said. So I called the pet store and even they gave me the wrong info. Either way, I learned a lesson that it's best to check out books and only ask for help on this forum when you have no other choice.

Threatening violence sure is a sign of maturity. It is also very useful for your monitor. I am sure people will want to assist you now that you have threatened violence...

That said...

You chose poorly for your first lizard beyond a chameleon. Nile monitors are demanding and difficult. There are many other animals that would have been a better choice before working your way up to a nile monitor. I still suggest that you take it back and get a different type of lizard. Nile monitors just do not fit what you seem to want from the lizard. You will very likely be unhappy with a nile monitor because how he acts now is most likely how he will act when he is bigger. That is just how nile monitors are.

No one here is going to be impressed with the value of your animals. The fact is that you have had one dead nile and another that is not likely to do well unless you make some major changes very soon. That is more important than whether you have expensive animals.

Your last nile, Snuggles, was not tame or calm or in any way healthy. It is dead. That means you should probably NOT use its behavior as a sign of doing things correctly. Monitors act "tame" when they are scared, terrified, highly stressed, and sick. Those monitors usually die... just like yours did. Most of us on this forum have seen other people have experiences just like yours; some of us have even had the very same experience. Learn from what happened. Maybe you should try a new approach to keeping a nile monitor.

Whether you like it or not, your current nile is acting like a "normal" "healthy" nile monitor should act. Nile monitors are SUPPOSED to act aggressive, defensive, crap, bite, whip, and struggle. That is how they escape and avoid predators. A monitor that does not do those things in the wild tends to die. Those that never do it in captivity are generally unhealthy. Your current one sounds healthy and it sounds like you are trying very hard to undo that.

At this point, you have been given the necessary advice that you need. It is your decision to act upon it or not.

Best of luck.
-----
^x^ Bloodbat ^x^
Monitors, monitors everywhere
and all the food they ate.
Monitors, monitors everywhere,
their parents loved to mate.

You are so tough, adult caiman and massasauga eh.... yet a little monitor that acts defensive makes you not like it.

I believe you........ really...... hahahahahahahahahahaha

I will not say anything bad about your monitor, it had no choice, you killed it. You need to learn to accept responsibility for your actions, you and you alone are responsible for the death. You bought the monitor, it died under your care. Simple and true.

--Robert

BTW - As Bloodbat and numerous others have said, it's tameness was a sign it was sick.

all calm baby monitors that will sit in your hand till they fall asleep have one foot in the grave already... calm = severely stressed or full of parasites.

96 degrees is too cold for a basking spot... 130-150 is more appropriate.. how big is your cage? substrate? (1-2' of dirt is the best) how many hide spots...

if you have a small cage (say 50 gallon) it will only last for a month or so as the nile will out grow it QUICKLY... I put my Blk Throat into his 8ft long cage before he was a foot long... it is much easier to have a proper temp gradient in a large tank...
I use 4x 90 w flood bulb in the 5' tall section of the cage with multiple basking heights ranging from 110 to 160 degrees. and in the 2 1/2' tall section I use 2 of whatever reptile bulbs or regular light bulbs I have on hand to assure that the cool end of the cage stays @ 80 degrees.

It is very important that you do not put anything in the cage that the animal can harm itself with... because it something bad happens it is YOUR fault.

now, before you get pissy or violent let me tell you this.

I had a Savannah monitor for over 2 years... until he deficated on his cobra heat mat and electricuted his tale, severely burning it... I had to have it put down when the vet said it probably wouldn't survive the $500 surgery. I was angry... and didn't want to claim responcibility for my animals death....
I came on here and ppl said things I didn't want to hear... but what I had to realize is I put an object into it's cage that caused it's death... I paid $50 for a heat mat that was supposed to be safe... but electricity and large ammounts of lizzard poo do not mix. reguardless of how it happened it was MY fault. I read and researched on monitors and other lizzards for a year before I got my first one... and I still have had problems due to inexpirience.

Now I have a 3 1/2 foot long long Black Throat that is only 9 months old... If I were to stick my hand in its cage and leave it there for a few seconds without looking, it would be gone... but my monitor is far from being a Monster... If you take care of a large lizzard you must be willing to take care of a "do not touch" pet... remember cleaning its poop up can be a chore if it wants to attack you because you are in its home... My monitor is very territorial.

I had the basking spot for Snuggles up over 100 F in the basking spot and when I called the pet store, they said it was WAAAAY to hot and that's why she got sick and dehydrated. The book I read is one of the best monitor and tegu books out there and it says the same thing- 85-95 F in the basking spot. I put Godzilla's hide log in the basking spot too and he seems to like it that way.

He's been eating crickets and I DO have access to mice of all sizes, I just don't know when I should start to offer pinkies. His mouth still looks kinda small to me and monitors aren't like snakes or crocodilians, where they can eat stuff bigger than their own head. Most of my experience is with snakes and crocs and the ones handled have been relatively docile...even that little bastard massasauga...didn't rattle or anything but he still bit me. I don't free-hand venomous snakes anymore though.

Everything I've read and heard from outside of this board says you need to handle/tame your Nile or it'll just get worse as it gets big. I know for a fact that the same thing goes for crocodilians and boas...not too sure about pythons cuz they have a tendency to KILL their owners as they get bigger.

Is it at all possible that Godzilla will 'get used' to my scent and to be handling for brief periods of time? He has a vet appointment monday and I'm debating whether or not to cancel it. I don't really care if he becomes 'docile' or not but I don't want him to stress out when he gets handled for necessary things like nail trimmings, vet appointments and moving him to bigger cages. It is also possible that he'll calm down as he gets bigger and stop pooping on me because that is just really disgusting. Like I said before, I don't mind the tail whipping, biting or scratching.

To Rob, I mainly work with snakes and some crocodilians. The zoo up here didn't have any large monitors or large carnivorous lizards until recently when we got a young male Komodo dragon, who I personally enjoy a lot. I never intended on getting interested in monitors until I read up on dragons and found out that they aren't available in the herp circle...yet. I've been fascinated by snakes for several years and I'm working on a degree in herpetology right now.

If you'd like, I can forward the medical bills for the antivenin which is about 500 bux a pop and the bill for two suture kits and several saline flushes for the caimen bite.

If you have the "best" book out there and the pet store (which makes money on people like you) tells you things, then why do you care what we say here? Maybe because some of us have kept these animals for years? Maybe because many of us have raised babies from hatchlings to adults? Maybe because a few of us have bred niles and even more of us have bred other monitors?

You can take our advice and our experience and use it with your animal, or you can do something else. It is your animal to do with what you will.

A basking spot in the 80s is too cool. A basking spot in the 90s is too cool. I use 110-120 or so. Other people go as high as 130-150 surface temp (which is different from air temp). You are either reading the book wrong or the book is not as great as you think it is. Pet store people sometimes know what they are talking about and sometimes they do not.

No one can tell you whether your nile will calm down or not. This has been mentioned to you a few times now. If you handle it and "force" it to get used to you, then you will either have a calm one, a dead one, or a very very nasty one. If you stop handling it now and let it get used to you on its own terms, then chances are that you will have one that tolerates your presence, not quite calm but not quite as nasty as most of them who are forced to be held. The choice is yours on how you approach it, but I have been doing this for years and so have many others here and these results are what we have consistently seen in our experience.
-----
^x^ Bloodbat ^x^
Monitors, monitors everywhere
and all the food they ate.
Monitors, monitors everywhere,
their parents loved to mate.

most monitors need an ambient (air temp) of 80-85 degrees in the whole cage... Mine is like that with the bottom of the dirt may reach 75 degrees... but the basking spot I have has 2 hide spots underneath a 2 tiered baking area (large hollow log next to wooden shelf) on top of the shelf I keep a towel and water and the surface temp is 110 degrees... on top of the log right now the surface temp is 150 degrees... I often see my Black Throat basking on either spot, sometimes moving back and forth between for thermal regulation. Monitors need proper temps to allow them to process food and grow properly. mine eats like a horse and is growing quickly... but I have read on here of several Blk Throats growing faster than mine... and without these high temps there is no way the monitor will grow as fast as it should... niles and Blk Throats both should reach 4-5 ft in only a years time... that means lots of food and heat to allow them to process the food quickly and use it to grow.

if the pet store said 100 degrees is way too hot tell them I said they shouldn't be dealing with pets they don't know ANYTHING about. Maybe they should talk with expirienced keepers and breeders to learn about the pets they are selling.

so read what ppl say here and don't get mad if you don't like what you hear... it is more important for you animal to stay alive and healthy then it is for you to get mad and decide not to learn proper care instead of what the pet store ppl said...

and next time you go into your petstore look at the condition of their reptiles and see if they are being properly cared for... I have never ever seen a pet store ever that keeps reptile in proper temps and proper diets... they usually want to keep the herps cold so they eat less and grow slower... that helps keep their business expenses down and they don't get stuck with large reptiles no one wants.

You are alot tougher than me. I've been bitten by snakes, lizards and turtles and it still bothers the hell out of me.
Let me put my gear on and get kicked in the head and I'm ok but critter bites tick me off.

Scott
-----
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

The best advice i could give to a first-time monitor owner is DON'T get a nile. Maybe you can trade down to a savannah, they are relatively easy to care for and about as tame as monitors come if raised right.

JT

The pet shop I went to specializes in herps and ALL of their reptiles look nice and healthy. I know I should run down stairs and get my monitor book he recommended so I can give you all the title but I'm REALLY lazy. Maybe what the other guy I talked to meant that 100 was too hot for a hatchling. Godzilla isn't even a foot yet and he's eating crickets...lots of them. He eats more than both of my White's tree frogs. I just don't want him to cook. He's getting used to me walking in the room but he still isn't comfortable with me replacing his water while he's out in the open.

But I still need an answer to the mice thing. When should I offer him pinkies and should I use f/t, live or pre-killed? I feed my boas live adult mice and they tend to like them better than the pre-killed or f/t. Should I give Godzilla a live pink so he can have the fun of eviscerating it? I read that Niles like doing that.

Yeah Scott, I've done A LOT of 'DER! STUPID!' things with animals from approaching wild horses and letting a classmate come with me. She almost got me kicked when she took a picture and spooked the horse. I've pet leopard sharks in their tanks at various aquariums, held puffer fish and jellyfish by the top of it's body and I've gone out and approached big alligators in Florida.

With snakes, I've done just about every dumb thing you can do. I've been bitten by so many non-venomous that I can recognize what species they are by whether or not I've been bitten by one before. The worst bites come from big boas...mainly Emeralds and GTPs...big teeth= bloody bites. I've free handled several venomous species...mostly rattlers and vipers because a good friend breeds them and he lets me help him out. I did get a chance to free-hand some sea kraits and they are fairly docile compared to other venomous species. I want to try and free-hand a cobra but cobra bites are worse than the massasauga up here and the anti-venin is 1500$ a pop. I know it's not the smartest thing to do but I figure if the snake still thinks I'm a threat after I've got it in my hand, it has every right to tag me.

From personal experience, the worst bites come from crocs/caimen/gators and turtles that eat carrion. They have lots of nasties livin in their mouths and if you get bitten, you need to get it flush and cleaned like you would a bite from a dog. And it gets worse if it gets infected. I had a bite from a snapper I caught and even though my dad cleaned it and stitched it, the next day it was so inflamed that you couldn't see the black sutures. It was kinda fun making my squeamish friend use my knife to cut the sutures and squeeze out the pus.

You can stop wasting your time with this person. It is obvious the pet store advice is better than the advice from people who have kept these animals personnaly for years. It's one of those cases where the best advice is what they want to hear, not the correct advice.

BTW, why are you proud of all the bites? I get pissed if I get bit because that means I did something stupid to cause the bite. You should be able to deal with even the nastiest snakes without getting bit if you are careful and know what you are doing.

As far as your nile goes. The pet store knows nothing. Niles ARE large agressive lizards. They are genetically programmed to be this way. Hell, they feed on croc eggs in the wild. Do you think a relaxed happy go lucky nile is going to be able to get away with feeding on croc eggs?

I have a savannah and a nile. The sav is pretty decent but I would NEVER try an cuddle it. The nile allows me to do cage maintenance but if I wear out my welcome in his enclosure, I will get a tail whip from him.

You did not buy a dog that will jump up on your lap. You bought a carnivorous lizard that can be dangerous if you do not know what you are doing.

First of all, a petstore is in many cases a good spot for misinformation. forget what the poeple there said. The best and most experienced monitor keepers around are in this forum, and they know their stuff. Do some research, find a good caresheet, and after that, THEN ask for help with what you dont understand.

Happy Trails,
JT
here's a good caresheet to get started

You are, no offence, a terrible pet owner. If you simply decide to not like an animal because it uses its natural responses to danger, you have no business owning any animal. Nile monitors are just getting more and more of a bad rap, due to bad owners like yourself. Do your Nile a REAL favor and sell it to me. I will take care of it if you need me to. I will pay shipping and all, as long as you don't mess its life up more than it already has been.

-john may