Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Considering building six 36"x16"x10" melamine cages stacked. If I would to run 11" flexwatt down the back of the entire back of the stack towards one end, would this work? Back heat seems to work for racks. If so, what would be the best way to attache it, foil tape or staple it? Didn't think sandwiching flexwatt between the cages was a good idea becauce of the lack of an air space. Just need some help with this from more experienced and knowledgeable than myself before I get too far along, and get a set up that won't work. THANKS

I have used that technique with an enclosure stack, and it didn't work all that well (luckily I had mainly used that particular stack for colombian rainbows which don't need as high an ambient as regular boas constrictors.)

I highly suggest using thin wood strips to help allow an air gap between the enclosures and go with belly heat instead of back heat. (one main reason back heat can work in racks is the heat tape is stuck between the tub and the back panel allowing the heat to build up slightly where as in an enclosure stack all the heat tape will do is radiate out away from the enclosures slightly heating up the back panel.

Good luck..
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Randall L Turner Jr.
www.aircapitalconstrictors.com
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Now matter how you configure it, you will be trying to push heat through a thickness of melamine. Assuming that the bottom is made of the same thickness as the top, it doesn't matter where you put it, except for what is happening on the OTHER side of the heat tape. If the heat tape is on the back exposed to air, then the vast majority of it will go into the air, and very little will push through the melamine.

Everybody is afraid to sandwich heat tape between insulators for fear of excessive heat buildup. I have not tried it, but I'm very skeptical that this would be a problem in general. You MUST experiment to be sure that it is safe but when I run the numbers it looks fine. I agree that heat must escape somewhere, or it will just build up until the heat tape melts, but I suspect that leaving one side completely open to air is WAY too cautious. It's not about "never sandwiching heat tape", it's about makeing sure that the heat has somewhere to go so that it won't build up to the point where the heat tape laminate melts, or the "sandwich bread" combusts. For example, if you sandwiched heat tape between styrofoam on one side (a fantastic insulator that lets almost no heat through) and a sheet of 1/8" aluminum on the other (one of the worst insulators that conducts almost all of the heat through easily) the heat would all flow out the aluminum side and never build up at all.

Here's what I would do:
Sandwich the heat tape between a good insulator on one side and a lousy insulator on the other, and have your snakes on the lousy insulator side. I would make the back of your cages out of something thin, like the 3/16" or 1/4" panelling they sell to line shower enclosures or make dry erase boards. It is easy to clean, but thin, so it will allow heat through without much of a fight. Tape the heat tape to the back of your enclosures and then cover the back (and the heat tape) with a sheet of styrofoam. The heat will only be able to escape by pushing through the thin backs of your cages and heating them.

This set up would be very efficient, so you wouldn't need very wide or very high wattage heat tape, unless the air temp in the room gets real cold. Consider 3", or low wattage 6".

Also, I HIGHLY recommend you install a thermostat to keep things from getting too hot (this rig will be REALLY efficient, and once the cages are warm it won't take much to keep them there, unless they are out in the snow) and a rheostat to limit the max amount of power that will be delivered (a good idea in case the thermostat breaks or the probe finds a cold spot.)

Thanks for the input. Still some questions. With the flexwatt under each cage would the 3/4" melamine be too thick for the haet to penatrate? If so would 1/2" be better? THANKS for any input.

My guess is that Melamine is a fairly good insulator (closer to a good one than a lousy one). 1/2" would let heat through 33% better than than 3/4". But 1/2" of melamine is still a fairly good insulator. Are you planning to sandwich it between the top of one cage and the bottom of another, or will one side be open to the air? If you sandwich it between two pieces of melamine (1/2 or 3/4) then heat will leak out of both sides relatively slowly, and excess heat may build up. you should do a test to make sure, but that set up is potentially dangerous. Again, I suggest you make one side well insulated and the other poorly insulated. If you really like belly heat, make the bottom of your cages out of a poor insulator like glass or the thin "dry erase/shower" board I mentioned earlier, and let the top of the cage below act as the good insulator (say 3/4" melamine). Just avoid sandwiching the heat tape between two good insulators, and 1/2 or 3/4 melamine is a good insulator. MHO

My orignal plan was to run the heat tape down the back of the cages, from the feedback I'm getting thats out. Then second planwas, yes to sandwich the heat tape between top and bottom cage, you say that may not be the way to go. The shower board you are refering to, I assume that is tile board? If so, than your idea is to put the heat tape between the tile board and the melamine, with the tile board on the inside of the cage. The heat would the transfer through the tile board. Then either back heat or belly heat would work, right? Thanks for your help.

I'm not sure you know what I'm suggesting. First The material I'm talking about is probably not what you are calling "tile board". The stuff I'm talking about is perfectly smooth and sold in 4' x 8' sheets. It is usually white on one side and completely waterproof on that side. It is used to make dry erase boards as well as to line shower stalls. It is thin, like pegboard.

My design is to use it AS the bottom of your cages, not simply as a liner over a melamine bottom. I guess that would work too, but it is not neccessary, and then the heat tape would be hard to replace or alter. I'm saying, just use the bathroom wallboard to make the bottom, and tape the heat tape to the bottom of it. That's if you want belly heat. If back heat is ok, then make the back out of the bathroom wallboard and put the heat tape there.

However, an alternate design would be to forget the bathroom wallboard and make the whole thing out of melamine and sandwich the heat tape between the bottom of one cage and the top of another. That would heat from both the top and bottom. That is more risky than the above design, but if you test it and it doesn't overheat, then you're OK. I think it's cheaper and safer to go with the bathroom wallboard, but manybe you could get away with the melamine sandwich.

Take a trip to the building supply store and see if you can find the bathroom wallboard I'm talking about. If they don't have it, take a look at a dry erase board to see what I'm talking about.

My cage design is such that the 3/4 inch melamine cage floor is 4 inches above the cage top below it with a removable base/kickplate in front where all the wiring, timer, etc will be housed so there will be a lot of open space under the heat tape unless I put some styrofoam underneath it and maybe even rout out a 1/2 inch so the heat only has 1/4 inch to go through. This part of my plan is still in the "thinking about it" stage, I just wanted to keep all that crap out of the inside of the cage. Any ideas, anyone? Thanks!

I'm building cages with 3/4" melamine and I was considering routing out an area in the bottom of the cage where the heat tape is so instead of going through 3/4 of an inch the heat would only have to penetrate say, a half inch of melamine, maybe even 3/8 inch before any structural weakness occurs. What do you think?

Were you going to router out for the heat tape on the inside or the underneath? If you go inside the cage were you going to cover it with anything? Thanks for you help.

I was going to do it under the cage so as to do away with all the wires and heat pads inside the cage which is kind of a pain when cleaning up poops and pee. I'm going away on a trip for a couple of weeks but when I get back I'll try to post pics...

That would be great. Have fun!

Sure that would help, but it's lots of work. There's got to be an easier way. Maybe you could just use 1/2" for the bottom.

Drill a hole for the cord and have your flexwatt inside the cages siliconed to the bottom of the cage.

Have you done this? I didn't think this was a good idea because flexwatt is no sealed. I could be completely wrong. That would be another way to go. Thanks.

For those who are really dead set on using flexwatt-type heaters INSIDE their enclosures, I recommend you take a look at the Ultratherm brand heating pad. The instructions that come with each heater even allow for this practice. They come in various sizes (wattages) with a cord and plug preinstalled and have a heavier duty covering than standard Flexwatt.

I’ve used them a couple of times inside a cage temporarily; taped them down the outside of a stack of cages; and most often install them underneath plastic cages or glass aquaria. If you want belly heat in your cages, they are a nice way to go. I’ve used them for years, and was happy to see The Bean Farm start carrying a new and improved version a couple of years ago.

-Joan

Thanks for the tip. Was unsure about flexwatt heat tape inside the cage. I take it that the pads are sealed so water or fluid from the snake won't effect them. When you taped them to the outside of the cage stack, how did that work? That was my orignal plan with the flexwatt heat tape, but was told that would not work. THANKS.

I saw the flexwatt in the cage idea when I found some cage plans, I am building cages for my reptiles. As far as I know, the heat element is sealed inside the flexible plastic covering and the only area of concern is the connection to the electric wire, which can be sealed with silicone. If you then seal down the flexwatt to the bottom of the cage with more silicone. it is hard to see how even the most enterprising snake could get into trouble.

Where did you see the plans? Curious to here if others out there have used this method.

Here it is:
www.arbreptiles.com has excellent and detailed cage plans along with info on flexwatt. I am using these plans to make a wall of cages 6 feet high and 12 feet long, nice new homes for my reptiles.