Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi, just wondering if anyone can identify this snake. Picture was taken in Venezuela. It looks like a coral snake to me, but I don't know what species. Any help is very much appreciated - Thanks beforehand!

Well, since no one else has answered yet - Was that photo taken in the extreme northwestern part of the country - like in Tachira, Merida or Zulia? It really looks like a milksnake, and I beleive the only triangulum that occurs in Venezuela is Lampropeltis triangulum andesiana.

Thanks for the response! The picture was taken in eastern Venezuela, near the Guyana border. I believe the surrounding environment was more of the rainforest/swampy/lowland area.

I looked up the species you mentioned - it was interesting reading.

The white band across the back of the head fits in nicely, and the species does occur in eastern Venezuela.

Lampropeltis is not found anywhere near the Guyana border. No coral snake has the black rings disposed in pairs, so it is not a Micrurus. Oxyrhopus have triads, monads or other more irregular patterns. I am not aware of any other equally convincing coral snake mimics in the area.

Cheers,

Wolfgang
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WW Home

I've not heard of accounts of L.t.adesiana from Venezuela, but that doesn't mean there haven't been any. As far as I know the range of L.t.andesiana is restricted to the mountains of Columbia. I know L.t.micropholis occurs in Venezuela. This animal really doesn't look like either to me.

See:

Notes on the Natural History of the Milksnake Lampropeltis triangulum andesiana Williams,1978 in Venezuela

How about that! I've never seen that work before. Thanks for the link.

The snake in the photo does not look like L.t.andesiana to me, though. The white is too clean and it has a black nose. It really looks more like L.t.nelsoni or L.t.sinaloae except for the width of the bands. However, that's way out of the range for either of those.

My money says coralsnake. I don't have my Coralsnakes book handy to look it up, but something about it looks Elapid to me.

I don't think it is a milksnake, and I don't know what other mimics there are in Venezuela.
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Chris Harrison

I agree. I haven't seen a Coral Snake with exactly that pattern of banding, but it does have that "look"....the slender "cylidrical" coral snake body. It really doesn't seem to have the milksnake build. It's difficult to see the head in the photo. That would make the distiction easy. There are only one or two species of milksnake found in Venezuela, but there are probably at least 10 species of Coral Snakes found there. Most of the Coral Snakes from that region that have "triads" of banding do not have this pattern, though. The ones I've seen example of or pictures of have a pattern more like black, white, black, white, black, red, black, white,black, white, black, red, etc. Some of the Coral Snakes in that region do not have triads at all. I haven't seen examples or even photos of some of them though, so I don't know. Some of them that I know of that occur there are:

Micrurus surinamensis
Micrurus spixii
Micrurus remotus
Micrurus lemniscatus
Micrurus circinalis
Micrurus psyches
Micrurus collaris
Micrurus dumerilli
Micrurus hempri
Micrurus isozonatus

Some of these have been reclassified since my notes were made, so some of the binomials here may be obsolete...

Anyway, maybe someone has photos of some of these.

The Ecuadorian milksnake is also found in Venezuela (Markel). The color and banding seem more in line with this. It is normaly a snake of the lowlands.

Andean Milksnakes are heavily marked with white on the snout and the white bands marked with black. There is also the tendency to have dark staining on the red. L. andesiana is a snake of higher elevations. Is range is actually surrounded in S.America by L. micropholis.

Corals are totaly out of the question.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I dunno...I've never seen micropholis that "clean". Normally the red is clean, but the white is heavily black-tipped. And, they usually have a light colored nose. But, like I said, I've never seen a Coral Snake with that pattern either. This thing looks like a Sinaloan with wide black and white bands, but I know that's out of the question too. It just doesn't look like micropholis to me. Of course, I could be wrong. I wish Wolfgang Wuster would chime in here...he's pretty doggone good with these SA snakes. Not that you aren't too, Frank...but I know Wolfgang has spent some time in that region working with them in the field. Dick Bartlett might be able to settle it, too.

A clear shot of the head would have helped. I have seen some very 'clean' Micros, but they intergrade with Andeans so some of them have a proper (Honduran) nose band and white body bands, while others are speckled. The correct band count and locality (swamp) are the clues that persuaded me.

Of course it would be really cool if this were a new sbsps.

Do you have Systematics and Natural History of the American
milksnake? Great photo of the speckled form.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Yep..I have it...somewhere. That's what I was looking for to reference for this ID, and I seem to have temporarily misplaced it. I'll find it, though....eventually.

I would guess Erythrolamprus aesculapii...

Steph

dreyfus.ib.usp.br/bio435/bio43597/andre/chave/14.html

Here's a link.

Steph

I have kept those (E.a). They are variable so one could match the pattern and color and the swamp habitat seems right. But the proportions don't look right to me. It is still a question of the head.

At this point it is as good a guess as a milksnake.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Yep..that's definitely a possibility. I didn't even think of that.

Many thanks for all the responses! At this time, looks like it could be either a milksnake or a false coral. Not sure if we can nail it down further, although if anyone else has an idea or any other info, it would be greatly appreciated.

Rini