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I've been waiting to see if anyone would bring it up but...

I was waiting to see what those little gems would look like to see if they resembled the reddish colored cribo that was posted a few weeks ago.
Now that we have something to compare to it, what does everyone think?

Eric

To me, they don't.

Rubidus are extremely variable.
It seems like most of them in the US are the "dark phase"
Which look like a "flat black" eastern indigo wit white on the belly.

I have seem rub pictures that have mor reddish on them...
and have heard stories of rub's with lot of PINK

This pic is Brad S''s ligter phase, which looks an awful lot like erebenus, doesn't it?

Now, MAYBE...it's that the dark snakes like oldherpers are the true rub's and the others are rub's that integrade with other subs.

No matter how you look at it, there is a lot of work to be done with the Mexican Drymarchon. There is SO much integration going on. The photo that was posted months back of the orizibensis found road killed in the foothills of Veracruz (exactly where they historically supposed to be) looks just like a dark rub to me...

Bottom line...I REALLY believe that red snake is a rubidus-melanurus integrade. It sure doesn't look like a typical melanurus, yet it is WAY darker posteriorly than anteriorly...which is typical of melanurus, NOT rubidus. Rubidus, if anything, should be darker anteriorly on the dorsal.

That red snake was also found right aroud the southern range of Rub. and the northwestern range of melanurus.

That's my guess.

The picture Dean just showed is the only one I had seen of rubidus until oldherper posted his hatchling pics.(By the way, please do not sell those to some dumb SOB who will not appreciate what he has or does not have the ability to raise and breed them.) Let's get some more pics out there showing the differences Dean spoke of. I used to enjoy seeing the pics Bobl posted of his Yellow tail aquisitions. They seemed to show that there are two phases of yt - silver and brown. Are these animals collected from different regions? Also - a lot of pics that people are saying or selling as unicolor look just like one of my melanarus. I have seen pics of unicolor, and they not have grey/black tails. Am I wrong? Anyway, let's get some good pics out there to show folks that drymarchon is a lot more varied(not just e. indigos!) and beautiful than they may think.

Mike:

I'd love to see more rub pics too, but there just aren't a lot out there.

THere are a couple of adults posted a while back on this forum if you scroll down a little, and here is a good one on indigosnakes.com of Carl Gossett's "dark phase" animal...which I think oldherper has now.

As for unis - bt's...well, #1 they have a HUGE area if integration, a lot of the imports are crosses.

#2 unis are born looking a lot like a bt...and gradually lose the dark tail. Most adult have a tail that's a little darker than the rest of the body, but they are mostly solid golden.

Dan Felice would be a better source here, but I think it can take 2 years of more for the juvies to lost the cark tail.

Thanks for the response, Dean. I have really good picture I got off this sight a few years ago of two adult unicolors intertwined. They were solid brown and that is why I was dubious of pics I saw where they had dark tails. Thanks for the shot of the rubidus, it would be great to see a nice full body shot. Maybe oldherper could be persuaded....

These are not the easiest critters to get good full-body shots of. They are big, strong, deceptively quick-moving, and uncooperative at photo time. I'm set up for staging and shooting smaller snakes, but I don't have a stage for an 8-foot Indigo.

Here are a couple of photos I took last week (next two posts).

This is the male that is the father of the babies just hatched. He is in shed, so it's difficult to tell much of his coloration. I'll get more pics as soon as he sheds. The boy holding the snake is 4'10" tall.

This is the female that produced the babies:

oldherper - thanks for posting those. They really capture how impressive drymarchon are. They also show a good contrast to the other pic I had of the more speckled, orange bellied one around the water bowl. They appear to be more of a flat black/grey as opposed to the blue/black of an e.indigo. I would be more than happy to help you pose them next time the camera comes out!