Reptile & Amphibian Forums

First off, I have owned multiple dragons and NEVER had any problems with any of them. So this problem is new to me. My 2 month old dragon this morning is very disoriented. He wabbles when he walks and actually rolled to his back and then rolled back over in my hand when I was taking him to soak in warm water. I figured it was an impaction, but he is eating the right size crickets so the only other thing I can think of is sand... His temps are right on and has UVB lighting and gets his calcium everyday. The only other thing I can think of is that he only spends about 1-2 hours each day under the UVB lighting, but the calcium has D3 in it. Any help?

Yesterday around 5 is when he last ate and he seemed fine all last night. He hasn't ate anything today. Also before you say it, there are NO vets that have a clue about herps around here. I'm not sure how much it would benifit to attempt to take him to a vet around here.

>>First off, I have owned multiple dragons and NEVER had any problems with any of them. So this problem is new to me. My 2 month old dragon this morning is very disoriented. He wabbles when he walks and actually rolled to his back and then rolled back over in my hand when I was taking him to soak in warm water. I figured it was an impaction, but he is eating the right size crickets so the only other thing I can think of is sand... His temps are right on and has UVB lighting and gets his calcium everyday. The only other thing I can think of is that he only spends about 1-2 hours each day under the UVB lighting, but the calcium has D3 in it. Any help?

it sounds like stargazing to me. it is a neuroligical problem and I dont believe there is a cure. some will grow out of it some wont and some die from complications. It does not sound like a UV calcium problem. that is another issue.

If you have a UV light in the enclosure it should be on all day or it does no good. I will not argue the merrits of UV light other than to say it can only help it cant hurt.

back to the stargazing, if you search the forum there have beed more than a few posts in different forums about it.

heres what Cheri said about it
Author: CheriS
Date: Sat Jun 26 21:00:02 2004
Subject: Stargazing and Ataxia are similiar Both usually have the same base cause, but effect different muscle or areas of the brain...

Stargazing effects the area of the brain that controls the upper neck muscles

Ataxia can effect the lower muscles, causing the head to draw down instead of up.

These symptoms can also be signs of other minor problems that can be corrected.

Some things to try:

Up the calcium for a few weeks and make sure the dragon is under a good working UVB light, if you can not meter it and have doubts, change it with a new one.... if your not using one, thats probably your problem.

Vitamin B's, add some more in to the diet, either in food or supplements (you can use human grade Vitamin B but just a small pinch every other day and try that for a few weeks.

Dragons that have recovered from this usually had lack of one of the two above and it may not be just in the diet, the baby may not be absorbing them properly.

IF neither of those things improve the situation, they only testing can tell you if it is viral (thats the most common cause in babies) bacterial or neurological base. And sadly in each of those, there is not a good survival rate.
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www.reptilerooms.com

and

Author: CheriS
Date: Sun Jun 27 13:55:27 2004
Subject: Another thought... have you been cleaning with bleach?
Any plastic surface and silicon will absorb bleach and then when put under heat will create toxic fumes.

If you use bleach, make sure to really flush out the tank, basking platforms or area well.

Shelf liner is a nice ground cover for beardies (we use it with reptile carpet, paper towel and sand boxes), but it has to be cleaned with hot water and soap or nolvasan. Same with the plastic or resin basking areas or jungle gym for babies, they can absorb or trap bleach water and then when heated in a tank become dangerous.
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www.reptilerooms.com
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Bennett

Home of the Florida Orange
www.beardiedragon.com

That sounds like what is going on. I thought it was a problem in only snakes. He kinda just lays there looking at the sand. every once in awhile he tilts his head to the side. Overall he seems like he can't tell which way is up or down....

Has he suffered any head trauma latley? did he smack his head on anything? burn his head on a heat lamp, heat rock, etc.?

do his ears look swollen or unusual in anyway?

does he twitch at all during the day? when he rolls onto his back is he convulsing?

let me know the answers to those questions and we can work from there.
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sincerely,
jonathan
JDDK Reptiles www.jddkreptiles.com

No head injuries or any thing like that. He can't come in direct contact with his heat lamp and he has no heat rock. e only went to his back one time when I was carrying him to the bathroom to soak him and he immediately rolled back over. The main thing is the wobbling walk and his head movements at times seem different. He will lay on his stomach and on the side of his head. He has full use of his rear legs and will still move quickly when the cage is opened. So he still seems alert. These symptoms were not present yesterday, or atleast not noticeable. It was kinda really sudden. He did take a crap today but has eaten nothing. He is in a 4' cage with plenty of room with sifted sand. I know some people don't like sand for babies, but out of the 20 Dragons I have had, it has never been a problem. There were some wood branches in there that are usually used for bird perches and also a wood hiding cave. I have since taken them out, even though I don't think they were a problem. I have a 7% UVB light and I use Calcium with D3 in it. He usually eats about 7-10 dusted crickets a day and hasn't eaten veggies yet. He gets misted a couple times a day and has took a crap every day since I've had him. Like I said I'm not a novice with dragons, but I've never seen this before.

then it is either stargazing like beardiedragon said or it is an ear infection that is screwing with his balance.
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sincerely,
Jonathan D. de Kluyver
JDDK Reptiles quality reptiles and amphibians
www.jddkreptiles.com

Is there anything that can help with the ear infection or how to properly diagnose an ear infection. As I said earlier, there are no good herp vets around here so If I can maaybe tell them what I need maybe they can give me the proper medicine or something. I've been watching him for hours now and he still is walking around his cage and all that but it just looks like he's had to many beers. I just hate seeing him like this. Thanks for all your help guy's!!!! Much appreciated..

Look for swelling or something unusual on in or around the ear. I am not a vet but my freinds chameleon had an inner ear infection and it required sugery.. i doubt thats the same with bearded dragons though.
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sincerely,
Jonathan D. de Kluyver
JDDK Reptiles quality reptiles and amphibians
www.jddkreptiles.com

Wow, ear surgery on a chameleon? Did it survive and heal well? I'd think the stress of surgery like that would kill it. Heck, my chameleon would stress out if you so much as looked at it funny. I couldn't imagine he would have coped well with something like that.
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Amanda
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2.0 bearded dragons (Ocho / Domo-kun)
0.1 kingsnake (Rio)
1.0 ferret (Playstation)
1.0 cat (Wally)
0.1 dog (Tima)

I dont know if you consider this sugery but the basically had to slice open the skin so the fluids gathered during the earinfection would go drain out
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sincerely,
Jonathan D. de Kluyver
JDDK Reptiles quality reptiles and amphibians
www.jddkreptiles.com

you said: I have a 7% UVB light and I use Calcium with D3 in it. He usually eats about 7-10 dusted crickets a day and hasn't eaten veggies yet.

Calcium supplements no greens or veggies = NO vitamins and minerals.... lack of the B vitamins can cause the symptoms you describe and unless you are giving him a vitamin supplement, he is not getting any at all with the diet of only crickets.

You can use brewers yeast to get Vit B's into him quickly, but as long as he is not eating any greens, veggies or pellet foods, you need to get him on a vitamin/mineral supplement also. Rep_Cal Herptivite is a good one
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www.reptilerooms.com

First in response to Cheri, I forgot to mention that I do have a small amount of Reptivit mixed in with the calcium. Also greens are offered everyday, i just havn't found something he likes yet. BUT....This moring, he has been moving without the wobble so I'm puzzled. I think maybe it was a mild impaction that passed. I kept the cage about 5 degrees warmer last night then it usually is so maybe that helped. I don't know, but thankyou everyone for your help!!