Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What other kind of lizards can you put with a beardie, im looking for some sort of vegetarian.

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1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (Pyro/Sandfire/Orange Cross)
0.1.0 High Yellow Leopard Gecko
0.1.0 Albino Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Choclate/Tan Dapple Miniature Dachshund
1.0.0 Isabella Miniature Dachshund
0.1.0 Red/White Piebald Miniature Dachshund

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It is not recommended to put anything with a beardie. Some (like myself) would even say that it ins't wise to put another beardie with a beardie.

If you want another lizard get it a sperate enclosure so you can be sure all of it's individual needs are met.
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Amanda
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2.0 bearded dragons (Ocho / Domo-kun)
0.1 kingsnake (Rio)
1.0 ferret (Playstation)
1.0 cat (Wally)
0.1 dog (Tima)

Since you have a male, I would have to agree with the previous poster that you cannot put anything else with your beardie, not even another beardie. You could put a female in with him part of the year, but she would need her own setup most of the time so she wouldn't be overbred and stressed out. You can keep multiple females together, but you must be absolutely sure they're all females. You wouldn't want to find out one's a male when he accidently mated with your female when she was too young.
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3.0.0 Bearded Dragons Woodrow, Dexter, Tehko (My first beardie Griffin who turned me crazy, and Erik my Rankins, who will remain a midget- deceased)
1.0.0 Cat- the regular variety (Dominic- fat cat)
0.1.0 Dog- Lab mix(Betty- escape artist extraordinaire)
1.0.0 Red Eared Slider (Franklin)

>>What other kind of lizards can you put with a beardie, im looking for some sort of vegetarian.
>>

Beardies have a nasty habit of seeing almost anything, especially quick moving objects, as food. Anything smaller than the beardie will either be eaten whole or, at the very least, severly crippled.

Some have managed to pair beardies female-to-female together successfully, but I think they have to be the same size. Males and females together cause two specific problems, the male will aggressively try to breed with the female, causing a population explosion, or the bigger of the two will try to dominate the other, causing fights, stress, and everything else unhealthy for the weaker beardie. Males paired together will most definitely try to dominate one another.

And finally, most other bigger herps like uros and such can not only stress out a smaller beardie, they can be just as territorial, resulting in fights and damage.

Beardies do just fine as solitary animals, so it's best to just keep them that way.
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Dl

Someone will say, "Well, there are lizards, geckos, turtles, frogs, and snakes all living together in the wild - why can't I put them all in my tank?" There is no way for a little gecko to climb a tall branch and blend in with leaves to get away from a hungry predator in a small artificial enclosure. The bigger predator will eat the little one. The biggest, most aggressive species in the tank will be the lone survivor. Even if they don’t kill each other the stress levels will be high enough to make them sick.

Another good reason for not mixing species outside of the obvious (one thinking the other is a snack) is bacteria and parasites. What is naturally found in one species and excreted out can pass to the other species and be deadly. Coccidia is thought to be a natural parasite (in minimal amounts) in a bearded dragon and that the dragons own gut fauna controls it and keeps a balance; until a dragon gets stressed or some other illness allows that to bloom and get out of control. Another species may walk in the feces or consume something that walked in it and have no bacteria to combat it. Coccidia will then multiply quickly, in turn infecting the bearded dragon with an overload of parasites the other species excrete out.

The environmental and nutritional needs May also vary greatly, what one thrives in, could be harmful to the other. Animals may come from different environments (countries, climates, temperatures etc). Climates can even vary greatly, even for animals from the same region. A Uro requires a 115°F -130°F degree basking site. That would dehydrate and cook a dragon in no time. There Brumation temps can also be substantially different.

Last but not least, is that they might be active during different hours diurnal/nocturnal.

but if you must be careful of cross breeding.

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Bennett

Home of the Florida Orange
www.beardiedragon.com

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You could put beardies together. They love to cuddle as long as it is not two males and all the beardies are roughly the same size.

What exactly are you trying to do, get everyone and their dog to breed bearded dragons without putting thought into it?

Uggghhh..

I'm really not trying to pick on you, but every post you've made here this afternoon is telling people that males and females are fine to put together, they love it and they cuddle, and not one mention of breeding responsibly. The gene pool for these animals is very small right now, and the last thing we need is for so many people to be carelessly adding to it. I'm so tired of people coming to these forums saying "My beardie just layed eggs, what do I do?"

If you're going to give that kind of advice, please, at least make some mention of breeding animals responsibly. We need people to be putting in the special time and effort to do these things right, otherwise it is doing a great disservice to the hobby.

Sorry to go off like that, but this is one of my biggest pet peeves on these bearded dragon forums.
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Amanda
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2.0 bearded dragons (Ocho / Domo-kun)
0.1 kingsnake (Rio)
1.0 ferret (Playstation)
1.0 cat (Wally)
0.1 dog (Tima)

One of my biggest pet peeves is that people get these animals with out being prepared to make them happy. How would you like to be confined to live with absolutely no people for the rest of your life. Beardies are social creatures and keeping them solitary is a social injustice. Im not saying that everyone should breed. But those who do not want to would be better off getting two females.

Are you serious? You do realize that in the wild male beardies spend most of their time by themselves, right? They mate and the female leaves and they go about their business. They are not "social" like pack animals. They do not spend their lives hanging around in groups for company. For the most part they are solitary.

It's not like we are putting them in a cage by themselves and leaving them there with no interaction. We, their owners, give them interaction. They aren't withering away of loneliness.
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Amanda
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2.0 bearded dragons (Ocho / Domo-kun)
0.1 kingsnake (Rio)
1.0 ferret (Playstation)
1.0 cat (Wally)
0.1 dog (Tima)

They are not your slaves or indentured servants alive merely for your amusement and they are social creatures.

If you are honestly saying that the only way to keep bearded dragons happy is to keep them in pairs, you are insulting a great majority of this forum. That opinion is a rare one, my friend, and I along with many others here will not appreciate being compared to slave owners.
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Amanda
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2.0 bearded dragons (Ocho / Domo-kun)
0.1 kingsnake (Rio)
1.0 ferret (Playstation)
1.0 cat (Wally)
0.1 dog (Tima)

>>They are not your slaves or indentured servants alive merely for your amusement....

Where are you getting that from Kelphy's statement?! There is not a soul here that thinks that about their pets. Anyone that has an INKLING of thought about enslaving an animal would not take the time to post about taking proper care of them, or feel an emotional loss for them when they die.

The only ones that do that are the ones that DON'T care at all. They provide less than the basics for their pet, forget to feed them constantly, keep them cold, pit them against other animals for sport, and completely neglect medical care, proper nutrition, atmospheric requirements, EVERTHING necessary to keep a healthy herp. And I don't see that here.

What I see are people concerned about others' (and their own) beardies, new owners taking the time to ask INTELLIGENT questions (which ALL questions are, providing that someone is actually willing to listen to the answers, no matter how diverse, and base an opinion on those answers), about proper care, and experts that take their own personal time to share in the experience and delight in owning an intelligent and intriguing species.

Forgive me for saying so, your statement was NOT intelligent in the least bit. Please think about what you say to others before contracting athelete's tongue.
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Dl

that concept...... they are not cuddling, they are trying to steal heat from each other or get the best spot.

They never are together in the wild, UNLESS it is to mate and then separate. In captivity, they will tolerate each other if forced to, but given a choice they would be apart from their own kind.

Only in small babies have we seen a wasting effect at times when separated from clutchmates they have been with, but I think this is more a result of a change and fear on the part of the dragon, not the need for companionship. We forced them together til it became the "known" to them, then separated them and put them into a new enviroment. It an owner created situation, not something that is natural to them.

In the wild, babies hatch, dig out and will spend a day or two on low bushes, then separate from each other (sometimes eating each other)it is not their nature to be a pack.
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www.reptilerooms.com

>>One of my biggest pet peeves is that people get these animals with out being prepared to make them happy. How would you like to be confined to live with absolutely no people for the rest of your life. Beardies are social creatures and keeping them solitary is a social injustice. Im not saying that everyone should breed. But those who do not want to would be better off getting two females.

While I agree on the two females idea, albeit the same size and no need to compete, I disagree about the "social" part. And I have a perfectly docile beardie myself.

Everything about beardies tend to suggest they are absolutely not socal creatures. Even as babies they tend to prey on one another, bully one another, and nip one another without so much as a thought to their littermates. The mother beardies ALWAYS leave the area after laying eggs and covering them up because they WILL EAT their children. And male and female beardies are not monogamous (sp?), and will mate even though they come from the same nest.

Just because they can associate themselves with humans does not make them social. It takes a lot of time and trust to raise a docile beardie, much less keep it from running away when you are not looking. They, like any other wild animal, can associate their most basic needs with what you're providing, and as such will "put up" with many of your actions, like picking them up, hand-feeding them, putting them on leashes, even having them sit on you for hours at a time. In fact, most lizards and other herps are the same way.

Yes, I've also been guilty of "emotion-association", and continue to practice it on a daily basis, i.e. - talking to Draconis, holding him and petting him, etc. But I never delude myself into believing he responds in any other emotion than what he needs at that particular time, whether it be heat, food, or outright curiosity. I'll probably catch some flak there, but that is how I feel about it.

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Dl

One of my biggest pet peeves is that people get these animals without being prepared to make them happy, and are unaware of all the implications of their actions.

Bearded dragons are NOT naturally social animals. They live solitary lives usually only seeing other bearded dragons during mating season.

And speaking of mating. Having a male and a female permanently housed together, regardless of whether you want to breed or not, WILL result in either a female stressed out to the point of death (as the male will attempt to mate whether the female wants it or not), severe injury (I've seen males that have had their legs bitten off by females that didn't want it), eggs or any/all of the above.

Neither males nor females are social animals naturally. Where is your evidence that they are social animals?
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Axe
The Reptile Rooms

I have to agree. These are "wild" animals. They run a lot on instinct...aka mating, staying warm and eatting. They just get "used to" someone holding them. They do not feel love or become caring just because you love and care for them. Either way - I talk to my dragon and give it all the love possible...even though I know she doesnt understand it. To me - its a relationship that works both ways, she gets taken care of well and I'm a happy owner of a great pet!

>>You could put beardies together. They love to cuddle as long as it is not two males and all the beardies are roughly the same size.
fist let me say when I read this post I read it as house male and females together. I know you didnt write that but let me say this to those that think that's OK.

without a disclaimer of "ONLY DO THIS IF YOU WANT A LOT OF BABIES AND POSSABLE DEATH OF ADULTS" that may not be such a good idea. I dont know how much experience you have wih BDs but after almost a dozen years of raising BDs and more babies than I care to mention I feel that I can speak from experience.

so point 1 is: they are not cuddling and do not hang out together because they enjoy the company.

Research and my personal experience shows BDs are not neccessarily social animals with each other. By that I mean they don't hang out together if given enough space to seperate. People assign their own personal interpretations when they see beardies stacking. They are not cuddling. one BD on top of another is just the one on top getting the best basking spot. they do this cause they dont hae the option to do otherwise.

Point 2: breeding is a complicated process for us to understand. Housing a female and male together permanently can lead to more babies that you can deal with and the death of one or both BDs, not always but it can and people need to know that it can and does happen. When a female is housed with a male several things can happen.

a)the male will harrass the female to the point where the stress on her makes her stop eating and rapidly lose weight and possibly DIE.

b)the female will not allow the male to breed. he may develop a prolapse and infection. he may also be spreoccupied with breeding that he does not eat. Either way it can be fatal or extremely dangerous for the male.

c)they can breed so often with no rest inbetween that the female is bred to death or bred so much so that her life is shortened.

d) a BD can produce 20 - 100 eggs in a season. raising BDs is expensive and time consuming. if you are not prepared for it, you will be in over your head in no time.

it can get complicated wih many variations and combinations of these situations.

as to keeping multiple females together, Yes it can work but I have personally seen females go at it like cats and dogs so there is no guarantee there.

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having said all of this keep in mind, every BD is different and this is not true in every case, it is not an absolute. It is a general rule and ONLY ADVANCED HERPERS should stray from the general rule.
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I am in this business and on this forum because I love animals. I find some comments made here insulting so lets keep it proffesional, OK?
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Bennett

Home of the Florida Orange
www.beardiedragon.com

The reptile brain: this consists of the olfactostriatum, corpus striatum, globus pallidus and satellite connections.
The reptile brain controls basic survival instincts: fight-or-flight, hunger, territoriality, ritual and challenge displays. The reptile brain, by itself, may or may not permit herd behavior, but interaction in the herd would be reduced to functioning within a pecking order. Newcomers to a territory, held by members of their own species, have only two options: fight or move on.

The mammal brain: made up primarily of the limbic system (also found in birds).
The mammal brain makes possible pleasure, the maternal instinct, love, and compassion, all of our higher emotions. The limbic system makes it possible for herd interaction to go beyond the pecking order. Herd members care about each other, groom each other, look out for each other, and may even put their own lives on the line for the protection of the herd. The mammal brain allows a level of conflict resolution. Newcomers to a territory, when they persist in their efforts, may eventually be accepted as members and even friends. It makes possible a tactile sensitivity that allows the individual, in grooming, to tune in to what the groomee is experiencing. Pleasure is not just subjective; it can be interactive and even empathic.

The human brain: the neocortex.
This, of course, is where our real problem solving and tool-making abilities reside. The neocortex allows us to organize information into concepts, represent them with symbols, and manipulate them in ways that not only give us practical advantages, but can also give meaning to our lives and actions. In cooperation with the limbic system, it also makes it possible to function, socially, completely outside of the pecking order.

First, let's look at a lizard's brain. It was one of the first steps to a central nervous system over something I will refer to as fused ganglia. Fused ganglia is a dense area of nerves that was a precursor to a central nervous system. Fused ganglia is commonly found in insects. Fused ganglia is found along the mid section back of an insect or where you would assume a spine would be if they had one. Besides heartbeat and other automated bodily functions (reflexes), fused ganglia offers instinct only! Eat, breed, social interaction (basic non adaptive), and response to external stimuli.

The lizard brain is not that much advanced. Without overcomplicating the issue with the Amygdala, Thalamus, and the Hypothalamus; I would have to state that the brain of a lizard is so simple, it is not self aware. It had the most basic functions with a few higher functions over fused ganglia.

These more advanced functions of a lizard's brain would also include social interaction. Don't misinterpret the term social interaction with what we know it as. It's more advanced brain would add territorial aggression and fighting. Remember that there is NO frontal lobe in a lizard. It has no idea why it fights. It has no idea that it is breeding. It's responses to outside stimulation (pain) is fully automated. BUT, it can adapt to outside stimulation. If you were to walk into a room with a bucket of cricket’s everyday at 3PM, the lizard does not know that you are walking in with a bucket of crickets, but has associated the action with food. Some misinterpret this as cognitive thought. This is very basic association to external stimuli.

Now to get to the statement of "being cruel". Lizards do not know the concept of being cruel. Lizards do not cuddle. Cuddling is something that advanced mammals are capable of. Lizards are not self aware and certainly are not aware that there is a female next to them. If anything, they would only display the automated breeding or fighting response offered by its limited brain functions. Your lizard does not love you or care for you. If you sold it tomorrow, other then an adjustment period to its new surroundings, you would be forgotten the second you handed it over. Lizards do not have emotions. Lizards do not think.

Keeping a lizard by itself eliminates the possibility of injury because of its territorial aggression response. It has no need for companionship. It does not feel lonely or bored. If it bites you, it does not hate you. Emotions are beyond its capability. If it were aware for a second of any cognitive thought, it would appreciate the fact that you gave full use of your own frontal lobe and provided safety for it and not imposed your own higher brain functions on it.

thank you for taking the time to share that - it makes for very interesting reading
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Ross

0.1 Bearded Dragon (Fuego, spent the last 10 months thinking she was a he!)
2.1 Roommates (require more cleaning up after than the dragon)

They leave sticky notes on the glass that say "I love you, Mom"
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www.classylizard.com

n/p
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Joel R

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