Reptile & Amphibian Forums

*warning, this is the whole thread from the old board. I've divided it out, however, oldest post first then the replies. Any additional comments or tips are welcome. *

Posted by Carlton on May 08, 2003 at 00:04:18:
Hi, I've just received a beautiful male C. carinata paulsoni from Jerry Conway and wanted to say hello. Getting him home was a bit involved (I'm in SE AK) but worth it. He's a tiny gemlike white isabel. Now if he'll get down to eating I'll stop being a nervous new parent. He's been a pinkie eater from birth (thanks Jerry!) but is still distracted from his complicated travels I hope. If you hear whiny posts from me for a few days please indulge them! Any tips welcome.
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Posted by Sonya on May 08, 2003 at 12:17:59:
Very cool and if you get any tips you MUST post them. Trying to get actual experience and information on Candoia seems to be hard as finding hen's teeth. Other than rolling eyes and "oh, good luck!" I have been on my own with a few I got at White Plains. Anything cheap may be worth what you pay for it but I wanted to try some. Got some tiny ones...4 grams. Lost some within the week(started with 6) and I think lost another from temps. I am pretty sure. Though they were sitting on the heat they seem to not do well with too much. Anything over 82 worries me with them. I finally set them up as stably as I could with our fluxuating spring temps. Then to get them to eat. These had been taking scented pinkie parts I was told. I tried anole scenting, gecko scenting. Anole parts and parts of pinks scented with frogs. After losing one I got more nervous, which didn't help. Plus I am finding Candoia interesting to get used to. Sort of like a ball python but more pig headed.
Anyway, and I don't offer this as advice, but rather what worked for me so far. And this is just coming up on a month. I have 2 males left. Couldn't get them to take scented anything, and I am usually pretty good with feeding. I get other people bringing me things to get them to eat. One of those worthless gifts of mine. So these two would track a scented pinkie part but no going for it. (I had the best luck with frog scenting.) Then, desperate that they were thin and gonna die.....I tried small salamanders. I was sure they would die, afraid the sallies were toxic, but I have northern duskies, red backs and two lined here in NY and no luck with the 'feeder' anoles, gex or frogs I had bought. The dusky sal barely hit the floor when the little monster was on it and ate it. Both have taken them twice and lived to tell the tale. Gotten more active, for candoia, which my son calls "the laziest snakes on the planet". I am not sighing relief yet, but I was certainly happy to see interest. I hope to get enough size on them so they can take newborn pinks before summer's end.
You are so lucky to get a pinkie eater. I wish you luck. And DO keep us posted.
I am saving my money for some of Jerry's babies soon.
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Posted by Carlton on May 09, 2003 at 18:58:00:
Thanks for the info! I am hoping to avoid the whole scenting thing with a more expensive, cbb known pinkie eater, but right about now I am looking at my tuna cans with more than usual interest LOL. I knew up front that getting anything like newts, geckos, frogs, here would be difficult so Jerry selected this guy based on that. Raven kindly sent me some tips, so here's the jist of them. Sometimes the enclosure can be too big and they tend to stay hidden. Smaller Rubbermaids worked better and the neonates were more active and fed better. They can take longer to settle in than other boas and prefer a quiet house location during that time. Feed only every 7-10 days. Also, leave the pink in the tub and don't even check on it until the next evening. No disturbance at all while the food is present. We'll see how this works. Luckily my guy is in good condition so there is some time.
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Posted by Raven01 on May 12, 2003 at 11:05:34:
Hi there! As I mentioned to Carlton, I also have Solomon Island ground boas and tried lots of ways to get my wc male to eat. Jerry Conway is pretty much THE authority on these little guys and gave me lots of ideas to get mine feeding, even though he didn't sell him to me. I also got some great ideas from Jim Kavney of Hiss-N-Things (where I got my wc female Solomon Island ground boa). If I had to guess Sonya, yours are also wc or captive born (if they were inexpensive) and that means you get to do the trial and error thing, too. It's GREAT that you found something yours would eat fairly quickly though I'm sorry you lost so many of them. Unfortunately, that is often the case with the neonates from what I've read. I went through a number of items over the last year trying to get my guy to eat willingly. The guy I purchased him from said he was eating live geckos. Okay, that was no problem because I can get those. I tried two different types of geckos (two sizes of each), live pinks, frozen pinks, fresh killed pinks, frogs (two different types & sizes), and a slew of other things. When he started losing weight, I began assist feeding him with Lizard Maker scented pinks (that's by placing the head of the pinky in his mouth and then he'd swallow it on his own). Last month I found his 'trigger' food. My Mom had caught some wild mice and they started breeding. I figured I could prekill and freeze the offspring, then use them to feed some of my smaller snakes. On a whim a couple of weeks ago, I decided to try offering one of the live pinks to my male S.I. He ate it without me having to scent it or anything. After almost a year, I found something the little guy would eat on his own - figures it wouldn't be something readily available. Mom is now officially in the mouse breeding hobby. lol I've also heard of people using small feeder fish and tadpoles, neither of which I could find at the time. I hadn't ever thought of salamanders, that's a great idea.
I also found that neither of my Solomon Islands would eat if they were watched or there was too much activity around. I usually feed my male last thing in the evening by placing the prey in his tub and then leaving it until the next evening. You can also try closing the snakes in a small container (with air holes) or a paper bag with the top folded over (to provide a dark, contained space) and the prey item, leaving them overnight. The prey is usually gone by the next morning. Actually, this works for most young snakes as I've used it with a number of reluctant feeders over the years. I've also found that my pair does better in a smaller setup in a quieter part of the house than most of my other boas or pythons. I started my male out in a naturalistically decorated tank and he hid constantly, seeming timid of the large open areas. He started doing much better when I moved him down to a plastic tub (long enough that he could stretch out with a bit of room left over) with just a hide, water dish and branch. Even my female, who's probably around 2 years old, did much better in acclimating with a smaller tub to start out and a quiet area of the house. I think in part this is because they are both wild caught, but I usually treat most new additions in this way now and have good results.
They are also very particular about their temperature ranges from all I've read and my own experience. I keep mine with an ambient temp of 78-80 degrees. They are in Sterlite tubs that are set inside a large tank with several other tubs. I have heat tape secured to 1/2 the tank on a Helix thermostat behind the tubs containing my small carpet pythons and corn snakes but nothing behind the Solomon Islands with a large gap between the heated tubs and theirs. The rear corner of each of the S.I. tubs (nearest the heat tape) is slightly warmer - probably mid eighties at best. It provides something of a basking area though neither of the snakes make use of it - mostly preferring to hang out around the middle or front of the tubs and only in the back area right after feeding, if then. They also like it to be fairly humid, so I provide large water bowls to boost the humidity in the tubs.
All in all, these are great little snakes. I'm also saving up for a pair of Jerry's neonates. When I bought the male, it was my understanding that he was captive bred. Only after I started having feeding problems did I find out he was actually wild caught. Though I love him dearly, and feel he has been more than worth the effort, I'd just as soon not go through the whole not eating thing again. lol
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Posted by Sonya on May 12, 2003 at 21:35:42:
Maybe I am a slow learner....but then too the ones I lost I lost in one day....four days and the other two within the second week.I honestly think I lost them due to heating as much as anything. They are so fragile at this size.
I also have found that if the prey is the right thing there is NO hesitation on their part to eat....had one eating in my hand today. And the babies were CBB as I met the mom and talked with the guy (though his voice mail is not good and kept telling me it didn't have room for messages) I trust he is a good guy still. He was set up with a reputable guy too (very reputable) so the CB isn't an issue I think. I just think that that small a neonate is so fragile without perfect husbandry. But I really like them and am determined to work with them. I see them as what Bloods were like 5 or 10 years ago and I see a lot of potential there.
Thanks for the info...us freak lovers gotta stick together.
Sonya
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Posted by Raven01 on May 13, 2003 at 08:31:43:
I wouldn't say you're a slow learner at all. They are fragile as neonates and that adds a whole new dimension to trying to get them going. Many people I've talked to have had trouble with neonates. My male, who has been a challenge to say the least, was probably a yearling or thereabouts when I got him and my female is older, at least two years of age. She was acclimated well as far as feeding in captivity, she just isn't friendly. And yes, once you find out what they want to eat, they eat like a champ. As I mentioned, the food of choice for my male is pinky mice bred from wild mice, no lab stock is acceptable. Figures. I agree that they are gaining in popularity. That's part of the reason I wanted at least one pair of wild caught animals, so I can have diverse bloodlines when/if I can get them to breed. Unfortunately, I had not planned on my first purchase (the male) to be wild caught. I'd wanted to learn about them first and then work with wc, but he's been worth the effort so I can't complain. I guess he was my 'baptism by fire' for Solomon Islands. lol And yes, those of us who are into the less readily available animals need to stick together and share the information and any tricks we can about these great little snakes. I can easily see where these will gain popularity as more are produced in captivity. With such a beautiful range of colors and their small size, they really are the perfect boa for many of us.
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I wanted to continue this and was a bit miffed with the forum changes. Oh well.

Well, now that I have my neonate guys eating my female Viper isn't eating.(who had gained 45grams when I first got her and I was hoping she was gravid and then pooped and dropped the 45 grms....){for a time frame....got her at White Plains...4/13 wt was 320grms. offered a f/t mouse a week later...overnight. 4/30 wt was 345gms. left her be. 5/7 she is 300 grms. Offered a Russian Dwarf ham overnight f/t 5/9 and then a prekilled Gerbil last night 5/13} She is WC and was apparently taking mice 'sporatically' but now she isn't taking yet. I have tried mice overnight both prekilled and F/T with decidedly no interest. She is indifferent about a prekilled small gerbil and showed some interest in a Russian Dwarf Ham. but didn't eat it. She is NOT biting, but is very "assertive" and moves around when I take her out. But, if I offer food she balls up and sulks. I have not figured her out yet. I would have been happier if she were gravid, or even a biter...then I could maybe tease feed her.
Would you think green frogs next? or at least scenting with them? Too bad I don't have any big salamanders! j/k....though we do have some spotteds...just that 1.)they are pets and 2.) I worry about toxins.
Ideas?
Sonya

LONG first post.
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With my female Solomon Island, I introduce her prey (f/t mice) with long hemostats and dangle it in front of her. She usually snaps it right up. Ocassionally, I have to do the 'mouse dance' to make it look alive, not touching her with it but slowly jiggling it around nearby. I offer food roughly every 3-4 weeks, one or maybe two small mice per feeding. That was the recommendation on Jerry's Candoia page and I found it to be a good schedule for her. Candoia have a much slower metabolism than many of the other boids you see in the trade and don't require near the feeding frequency that is recommended for most boas or pythons. In fact, most of my adult boas & pythons are also on a 3-4 week feeding schedule.

My girl is quite bitey and tolerates being switched from one tub to another for feeding or cleaning, but that's about it. After that, it's Raven's blood-letting time. lol Even that much tolerance took some time to accomplish - most of the year I've had her, in fact. I'm confident in saying that she will never be one of my snakes that I can handle just for the joy of handling her...unless getting bitten & defecated on is one's idea of fun anyway. Perhaps it is because I don't handle her much, other than for cleaning her tub and feeding, and she is in a generally quiet area that she has adjusted so well. In fact, she seems to do better overall with the limited handling rather than while I was trying to work with her in short handling sessions. From all I've read and from my own limited experience, wild caught animals just take longer to adjust because there are so many new factors to contend with, not the least of which is that there is often a large predator (us) repeatedly capturing them.

Tease feeding may still work for your girl, just be careful not to make her fearful of her prey. Instead of bumping her face with the prey (as I know many do), try bumping or dragging the prey across her lower body. If she makes a defensive strike, great, but if she tries to hide or flee from the prey then stop. Also, making your prey item 'dance' nearby with hemostats or tongs (without actually touching the snake) or even using live in the beginning are both viable options. That will mostly depend on the snake. Sometimes it takes a bit to get wild caught snakes switched over to dead prey, or even different prey, especially those species known for being picky eaters. While I don't care for using live mice anymore, I have resorted to it when an animal absolutely refuses to eat anything prekilled/frozen-thawed, especially if weight loss becomes an issue. You could also try anoles, geckos, frogs, small feeder goldfish (from a pet store) or minnows (from a bait shop). Most of these can be ordered online as feeders or purchased through local reptile oriented pet stores. The scenting oils also seem to work well. I've used Lizard Maker with my male and it did help in getting him to more readily take f/t pinkies, though it still required assist feeding in his case.

Unfortunately, much about these little guys is still trial and error. That's especially true of wild caught animals. If you haven't already, also have a fecal done (seal a fresh 'sample' in a ziplock bag or jar and refrigerate it until you can get it to the vet). Most wild caught animals will have some sort of parasite load which can affect their eating habits as well as their overall health. I had my reptile vet (who's two hours away) call my local vet (who sees my cats) and tell them how and what to look for in the fecal. It usually costs the same either way, but it's an option if a good reptile vet isn't conveniently located but is willing call another local vet who is and advise them.

That's all I can think of so far...hope this helps!
Raven