Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I got this from my herpdigest ezine, thought Id share:

Two Busted For Illegal Collection of Snakes in New York State
(Timber Rattlesnake)
New York State Conservationist, 6/1/04
Volume 58; Issue 6,.
While patrolling a rural road in Rathbone, ECO Hulett noticed several
tools used to catch snakes inside a parked car. Hiking up a nearby
trail, ECO Hulett came upon two subjects. After a brief field
interview, both were arrested for illegally taking a New York State
threatened species. One subject was carrying a timber rattlesnake in
a pillow case at the end of his snake pole, and the second subject
had a snake tool and and a black racer snake in his bag.
During the interview, the second individual admitted he was
attempting to capture timber rattlesnakes and that he had been
hunting specifically for the threatened species. Both subjects pied
guilty to the charges and were fined $200 each.

I too suscribe to Herpdigest. I found that the fine was rediculously low.
Isn't the contribution to animal extinction on threatened species also a form of animal cruelty and thus subject to stiffer penalties?
In any case it's no wonder why these guys are rare.
Any idea of who to contact to try and increase the penalties (I'm not a NY resident)

Well, to be fair the rareness of the timbers has nothing to do with herpers, who never could impact upon the numbers of this formerly vastly ranging species. Rather, the problem lies with habitat destruction. Most National Parks are merely Land of the Living Dead, species that are extinct but just don't know it yet. Populations too small, too fragmented. So, a couple kids and a pillow case aren't the real criminals here.

Cheers
Bryan
-----
Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Australian Venom Research Unit,
University of Melbourne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Population and Evolutionary Genetics Unit,
Museum Victoria
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.venomdoc.com

You do have a valid point. Collectors have not created the population crisis that we see; yet now with so few numbers a couple of kids and a bag can have a significant impact so to speak.
I discussed this with a biologist involved in saving a local population of prairie rattlers in Lethbridge AB. The whole population was nearly wiped out several times when the hibernaculum was invaded by snake haters. The snakes are currently being re-located to a man-made hibernaculum further from the urban areas.

No disrespect to either of you, but it's been well known for years that timber rattlesnakes in NY state were killed on sight before they became protected. Even before the one maniac (who's name I won't mention) managed to round up 7 or 8 thousand of them, they were being dessimated to all hell. There were bounties put on timber rattlesnakes and den sites were crushed with dynamite. That, coupled with the high sexual maturity age they have, is making it hard for a come back. Although habitat destruction MAY have something to do with it....in a few mine and den areas, it's definitely not the cause. If you were talking about massasauga's, I'd say habitat destruction is much more of a reason, that and the delicate nature of the snakes.
-tom

The dynamiting of dens certainly was an extreme form of habitat (and snake) destruction! That makes me ill!! In any case, people like these two blokes with the snake bag certainly aren't the reason the snakes are going extinct. Give them 1.1 and you'll probably never hear about them again until they have bred them up into a nice collection.

Cheers
Bryan
-----
Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Australian Venom Research Unit,
University of Melbourne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Population and Evolutionary Genetics Unit,
Museum Victoria
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.venomdoc.com

Hey everyone,

While it is a crime and I don't condone it, this specific incident has been blown out of proportion. First off, this incident occured over a year ago. It wasn't me, but someone I met through a friend. The "poacher" is a great conservationist. The snake wasn't being brought off of the hill. It was bagged to be shown to a member of the herping party who had never seen a timber. The kid who wanted to see a timber got lost and found a DEC agent. He said that they were up there to look at snakes. Down came the "poacher" with the bagged timber and there was the DEC agent.

lol. The guy was stupid for bagging the snake, no one would disagree. However, it wasn't going to leave the face of the hill. I've been out there a few times with him. Needless to say, hooks are not brought anymore.

I should also point out that the black racer was legally caught. The DEC official told him to ditch the racer as well. It wasn't his legal responsibility to get rid of this animal, but he did it anyways.

Eh... we all make mistakes. Live and learn. No animals or populations of wild snakes were going to be disrupted.

Later,
Dave

It sounds like we are all right to some degree and have valid points. For further say, what I was annoyed with is the fine itself.
Seeing a $200 dollar penalty isn't going to stop anyone, what is the point? I'll collect a few snakes here and there until I'm happy and maaaybee I'll have to pay a few bucks.. give me a break!