Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok, I just went to check up on my Whites Tree frogs which I've had for over a year and one was dead and the other is really sick. They were fine just an hour ago!!! OK, I was going to clean their cage and I saw that deep down in the bottom there was some water. I took them out and put them in a little cage with some water in the bottom and some food. They had a UVB light above them and some heat under them. The cage took longer than I thought to dry, so they were in there a couple days. And they were pefectly fine until just a few minutes ago. I went to check on them and my precious James was dead on the bottom and the other was just sitting there. I rushed them into my bathroom, and put James on some toilet paper and he was not moving. He was dead. I put Lily in the sink and she just sat there. I put her in my hand and she curled up into a little ball. I put her back in the sink and saw her hands and legs were blood red, but weren't bleeding. Then she started opening and closing her mouth. And she has weird green dots up her arms and legs. I have no way I can get to a pet doctor!!! What should I do????? Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I'm such a bad pet owner!!!!! HELP!!!!! = 0

J.L.

Seek immediate veterinary assistance.

I can't!!!! That's not an option!!!!! I've set up the other in her cleaned out cage. She semas to be doing a little bit better, but I'm not sure!!!!

J.L.

And ya wonder why there are sooo many fights and disagrements on this site. Vet not an option, then don't yell and scream and tap your toes for someone here to respond. No vet in your area that will take care of animals such as these???/ Your basically on your own. all the time it takes to type out the emergency is the time it can take you to go to a vet, so either it's worth it and if no vet within several miles then do what you know, I would. Nothing we can do if we don't know all the details surrounding the situation and that's a bunch of questions and time that could be spent in finding a vet. THE END
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My roomates are 1BP,1BCI2corns,Rotti,3cats,desert scorpions, and snake food AKA the food chain. See my kids at: http://community.webshots.com/user/diggy415

Gee, ok, ok. I'm new at this sick pet thing. I'm not trying to be impatient. I'm just asking for ideas to help my pets because I love them very much. I don't like to be pounded with stuff that I'm doing wrong, just like you wouldn't. = (

J.L.

Okay I am not a vet and as such cannot legally offer medical advice as I am not liscenced to offer the advise and can be sued for malpractice as well as be arrested for offering medical advise. I cannot even give you a diagnosis.

Your frog may be at serious risk of death in the next hours to a couple of days as the symptoms fit many problems but also "redleg". If redleg is the case (which you need a vet to determine this) then you need immediate medical assistance in the form of effective antibiotic treatment (and not the over the counter crud) and fluid support to potentially make it through the crisis.
The longer you wait the less likely it is that your frog will survive.

Ed

I think part of the problem with this site is people just don't think or put themselves in the place of the person dealing with the sick frog.
There are many reasons WHY people are unable to get to a vet and it may be something as simple as it is night time on a Saturday do you think you could find a vet?
The other thing is that I think sometimes people post here not looking for VETRINARY advice b/c most if not all are aware that people on here are not VETS. But we are hobbyiest and we are people that sometimes know more than many vets. Also since we are frog keepers we may have experienced this before and could give some helpful IDEAS or possible opinions on what it is b/c you may have seen it before. At this point this poor frog will most likely die so your little bit of advice that this person is lookign for is not going to do any worse. Its not like you are suggesting for them to do some sort of surgery or something off hte wall like that. Hobbyiest like I said often know alot more then vets especially on a species that they have, care for, breed and raise.
Also there is NOTHING wrong with giving a person some ideas on how to stablize an animal and make it comfortable until that person is able to contact a vet. Don't forget somebody who is turning to this forum for advice may not know what they should do with the frog to keep it comfortable or basic things like how to rehydrate it.
So I think to jump down a persons through about going to a vet is absurd and I think it is unprofessional. Yes unproffessional, hobbyiest should still be proffessional and considerate to others feelings.
To also sit there and accuse someone of "killing" there frog due to improper care is not going to help either, lets get the frog comfortable, lets get it to a vet ASAP (which by the way in case you didn't know means as soon as POSSIBLE, which may not be immediately), get the frog on the way to being healthy again. AND then EDUCATE these keepers on the proper way to care for the frog so this does not happen again. Not hound, or accuse, or treat them like they are morons. Let me tell you there is PLENTY Of wrong information out there and they probably are just doing what they read at some point.
Just think about what it was like when you first start in this hobby... did you know everything. Did you always know what to do. NO I am sure you didn't you asked for advice, and I am sure that you asked both vets, hobbyiest, proffessional breeders etc.
This why I don't post here anymore when I have a problem b/c I think everybody here needs to get off hte high horse and just take a freaking chill pill. I unfortunatley have not found a nice frog forum full of CARING people. Found one for turtles and fish but not frogs. Oh well.

I wish you luck with your frog, If I knew of some dieas on how to help you until you can see that vet I would share them with you but nobody here every shared them with me so I DON"T KNOW!

Christina
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0.0.1 Hatchling Indian Star Tortoise (Sitara)
1.1 Russian Tortoise (Willy & Mikey)
0.1 Ornate Box Turtle (Lily)
1.0 Red Eared Slider (Chester)
0.0.2 White's Tree Frog (Kermit & Phil)
0.0.1 Red eyed Tree Frog (Justin)
0.0.1 Big Eyed Tree Frog
0.0.2 Bubbling Frog
0.0.2 Tiger Leg Tree Frogs (Akari & Shiro)
0.0.3 Amazonian Milky Tree Frogs
0.0.1 Dwarf Megophrys
0.0.2 Rainbow Burrowing Frog/Ornate Hopper
0.0.1 Asian Blue Webbed Gliding Tree Frogs
0.0.1 Albino Pacman Frog
0.1 Praire Dog (Timmy)
0.2 Chinchillas (Layla & Snickers)
0.3 mice
0.1 dog (Holly)
2.0 Cats (Champ & Bear)

Oh and a husband

Oh, my goodness!!!! Thank you for being so kind and considerate. That's just what I needed. I'm trying as hard as I can to help my poor frog, and I think it's working. I think she might have parasites, but I'm not sure. I'm going take her to a vet when I can. Thank you again. This forum needs more people like you.

J.L.

Treating or medicating a frog that has been diagnosed incorrectly can be more harmful than doing nothing at all. It's close to impossible to make a correct diagnosis from a description on a forum, especially if you're not qualified to make one. There are also possible consequences if you are not trained, diagnose something incorrectly and then it has a negative effect on the animal. I've heard of people being sued over situations like that. Suggesting that someone should take their frog to a trained veterinarian is the most responsible thing you can do. Offering medical advice based on a vauge description online would be irresponsible.
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Devin Edmonds
devin@amphibiancare.com
www.amphibiancare.com

You are right... I never said for you to suggest giving a medication... I was suggesting that you tell them what to do with the frog to keep it comfortable. Ie. should you put it into a smaller tank or keep it in its own tank. Should you remove the substrate and keep it on papertowel or leave it alone. Should give it a little soak in warm water??? these are ALL things that do not requre a vet and would not hurt hte frog. Not eveyrbody would know to do any of these things if they need to be done. It is something called stabilizing. A person on the streets can stablize a person that was hurt UNTIL trained personell arrive it is called the Good Samaritan laws. So if you can do that with a human being why can't you do it for a frog....
Again like a mentioned as a breeder or something like that MORE then likely you do know more then the vet b/c you may have seen it.
For example. Hey one of my frogs did that once and the vet said that it was such and such and it had to be treated with medication. Therefore do this to keep him comfy, do this to keep him stable and take him to a vet. it COULD be what my frog had but not definate.... You are not commiting yourself you are not acting like a vet you are acting like somebody that more then likely has experienced very similar things.
you can not tell me that the 100's of people that read that post that not one person has expereince that similar situation to give at least a little heads up. Glimpse of HOPE or a even hey he probably won't make it to prepare the person instead of leaving the person questioning is it possible or will he definatley die.
Again think of what it was like when you first started in this hobby!
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0.0.1 Hatchling Indian Star Tortoise (Sitara)
1.1 Russian Tortoise (Willy & Mikey)
0.1 Ornate Box Turtle (Lily)
1.0 Red Eared Slider (Chester)
0.0.2 White's Tree Frog (Kermit & Phil)
0.0.1 Red eyed Tree Frog (Justin)
0.0.1 Big Eyed Tree Frog
0.0.2 Bubbling Frog
0.0.2 Tiger Leg Tree Frogs (Akari & Shiro)
0.0.3 Amazonian Milky Tree Frogs
0.0.1 Dwarf Megophrys
0.0.2 Rainbow Burrowing Frog/Ornate Hopper
0.0.1 Asian Blue Webbed Gliding Tree Frogs
0.0.1 Albino Pacman Frog
0.1 Praire Dog (Timmy)
0.2 Chinchillas (Layla & Snickers)
0.3 mice
0.1 dog (Holly)
2.0 Cats (Champ & Bear)

Oh and a husband

An emergency herp vet has never been an option for me, either. The nearest one is 250 miles away. 5 days of the week I'm on emergency call at the local rurual hospital night and day for both X-ray and lab, so can't jump in the car and rush a frog to Salt Lake.

What I would (and have done) is provide the frog with a separate container and a warm Pediolyte soak. The basics one actually does with ill humans, but in a different manner. Establish hydration and electrolyte balance, making the frog as comfortable as possible until I'm able to get a more professional diagnosis. This is not malpractice or practicing veterinary medicine without a license--It's only practical sense. It may not save the frog if it has a severe undiagnosed problem, but it won't hurt it, either. I do agree that advising antibiotics and such is out of line. They should NEVER be administered without a specific diagnosis.

I would also do a careful check on anything different that happened--like moving the frogs to a new container to clean the old one, check on any kind of possible chemical or aerosol contamination that may have occurred. This may not save the frog in question, but it might prevent a recurrence.

I agree with the above post, that the people on this forum don't even pretend to be medical experts. It's about shared experiences that can be taken of left to the reader's discretion. This paranoia over litigation is beyond reason.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leukomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis (new froglets)

Thank you, thank you, thank you ro both of you. I will try that!!!

J.L.

I replied to your previous post after only reading to the line where you wrote about how "hobbyists often know a lot more than vets". I should have read your entire post before replying. On a public forum you're going to recieve all types of replies. Some of them might sound harsh or mean and others might be worded in a kind or caring way. Take what you can from both of them, they both serve the same purpose.

There is no way to give someone a heads up about how the frog is going to end up or what might happen, especially if we're uncertain about what exactly is wrong with it. There is just no way to do that. Similiar situations might be similiar but they aren't the same. In this case the symptoms sound like a bacterial infection but how can anyone be sure? Maybe the frog "looks like it's bleeding" because it actually is and it isn't just ruptured blood vessles, maybe they are open lesions, who knows. There just isn't anyway to tell, especially if we're not qualified to tell in the first place.
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Devin Edmonds
devin@amphibiancare.com
www.amphibiancare.com

Patty. Thank you so much... that was exactly my point that I was trying to put across. And I think your advice was exactly what I was trying to say.

Devin I understand where you are coming from. It is very hard to identify what the person is talking about. But you said it SOUNDED like a bacterial infection. Ok, we are not going to quote you on it. It is from your expereince that we are looking for. That is what this forum is here for. for hobbyist to discuss their expereinces.
I just think everybody needs to chill and not worry about some sort of liablity, there are no legal ramifications for giving an opinion. Again you don't want to go out there and tell some one to cut the frog open or anything silly like that. If a frog needs meds they would need to go to a vet anyway.
Anyway I think I have rambled enough. I highly doubt that anything I am saying here will make a difference anyway.

Christina
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0.0.1 Hatchling Indian Star Tortoise (Sitara)
1.1 Russian Tortoise (Willy & Mikey)
0.1 Ornate Box Turtle (Lily)
1.0 Red Eared Slider (Chester)
0.0.2 White's Tree Frog (Kermit & Phil)
0.0.1 Red eyed Tree Frog (Justin)
0.0.1 Big Eyed Tree Frog
0.0.2 Bubbling Frog
0.0.2 Tiger Leg Tree Frogs (Akari & Shiro)
0.0.3 Amazonian Milky Tree Frogs
0.0.1 Dwarf Megophrys
0.0.2 Rainbow Burrowing Frog/Ornate Hopper
0.0.1 Asian Blue Webbed Gliding Tree Frogs
0.0.1 Albino Pacman Frog
0.1 Praire Dog (Timmy)
0.2 Chinchillas (Layla & Snickers)
0.3 mice
0.1 dog (Holly)
2.0 Cats (Champ & Bear)

Oh and a husband

I know nothing about tree frogs, and I don't know if this is already out of the question because I haven't a clue what the green dots could mean--but is it possible it got burned on it's underside from the head beneath the tank? Was it maybe too hot? I remember a few years back leaving my horned frog in the sink with running water as I did when I cleaned the cage, and I hadn't checked the water settings, just pushed up the knob and left hot water running. My frog had a red burn on it's underside and didn't move easily for about one and a half, to 2 days. Then it just went into hibernation.

No, see, I had them in a little plastic cage inside a big plastic tub. One of my turtles lives on the other side of the tub. He was getting over shell rot, but he was almost better. They've lived next door (their actual cage was on the other side of him) for along time now, so he couldn't of gave anything to them, right? He is probably completely over his sickness now. And the heater was directly under my Whites, but they still got heat from it, but not too much.

J.L.

I know this is an old thread, but I have two tree frogs (among several) that get the tiny green dots. As far as I can tell it's just a general sign of stress. Both of these frogs are brown, though of very different species. Maybe it's that particular balance of chromataphores (brown) that causes it. Anyway, I think green spots are a matter of general disposition as opposed to a symptom of something specific. I am most definitly not a vet and I suspect that I am less of an expert than most on this site. But there you go.

P.S. Sueing me for all my worldly possessions is an exercise in futillity. I'm not even typing this on my own computer!

I had read through about your frogs and hope the other is doing well. Your one that died may have become overly stressed because after reading your bit I observed my whites after cleaning and saw the spots you spoke of was stress related. Also their feet seemed red but after placing back to their enviroment and letting them rest with the light off they returned to their normal routine. Also when I cleaned my tank they were only removed from it for an hour tops. Hope this helped.

Thanks! As the days go on, she keeps getting more and more back to her normal self. She's been more active. Even wating a little. = )

J.L.

I meant, "Even eating a little". Ooops!!

J.L.