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I saw some breeders are selling Tangerine albino cheaper than regular Ghost Honduran. In my opinion, I really think a nice Tangerine albino is more beautiful and colorful then a regular Ghost. And the demand on Tangerine albino is higher than Ghost Honduran also. I am talking about regular Ghost not the pinstripe or high quality ghost. Personally, I would pay up to $1000 for a very nice tangerine albino, but I would not pay more than $500 for a regular Ghost. I really want to hear what everyone thinks? Thanks. Eric

I really think the price on high quality Honduran should be higher then now. The reason I said that is because these high quality Honduran are very hard to get and very few of them. Honduran breeders won't get lots of snow, tangerine albino, super hypo or patterness ghost each year. For example. I have an albino ball python ($2500) and a very nice male tangerine albino Honduran ($1000). Every time my friends come visit me, most of them feel my tangerine albino Honduran is lots more beautiful then my albino ball python. They love my Honduran lots more than my ball python. I believe ball python breeders are producing more than 1000 albino ball pythons each year (maybe more than that). But how many high quality tangerine albino, snow, super hypo or pa patterness ghost hatch out each year? I believe less then 300 of them, and lots of people want to get them. Therefore, I really think there is no reason for the price on high quality Honduran is lower than those ball python. I only have about 10 ball and 20 Honduran. I really don¡¦t feel ball python is harder to take care compare to Honduran. Female lay about same eggs on ball and Honduran. And they also take about 2 to 3 years to get to breeding size. I have never hear any CH Honduran for sale, which mean all the babies Honduran are CB, but there are lots of wild caught or CH ball import to US each year. Do you think the price on Honduran is not right or the price on Ball python is not right? Thank Eric

It boils down to supply and demand doesn't it...

I too work with high end ball pythons as well, stictly to play with genetics...

Ball Pythons are very much more in demand then hondos are and frankly, I enjoy my hondos much more, they are better feeders, more reliable and predictable breeders...balls have a way to drive us nuts don't they!!!

It is stricktly supply and demand, there will be more supply then demand for piebalds this year, just watch those prices come down within the next 12-18 months...

Hondos will still have a following for a long time, can we compare hondos to the Cornsnake following, to a certain point, but will take much longer to get to that point and therefore hondo prices should hold up because of that...

You've said it, the higher end hondurans are not mass produced and I don't think they ever will...

My two copper coins anyways...

I never saw a wild caught high end Honduran for sale. Demand and Supply? (As I mention, there are lots more ball out there, but because the price is too high no one willing to pay for it). And also which one is better snake for beginner? Are there more breeders than beginner? (Only breeders will buy high end ball) Every time when I doing the reptile show, I only see breeders are checking out the high end ball python (most of people just walk away), and some breeders never sold a single high end ball during the two days show. I also do some ball pythons. I have albino, pastel and ghost. You can ask Shannon, how many high qualities Honduran he sold during the show and you can ask how many high quality balls got sold during the show.

Yes I've seen that Ghost, why in the world would anyone spend 2K's on a WC when a nice CB ghost can be had for under 1K.

The Ball Python breeders at shows are for the most part only showcasing their big ticket mutations, I don't think many people walk around with 10k plus on them!?!

The ball python industry is fargin crazy don't you think!

I work with Albino, VPI Axanthic, Piebald, Caramel and pastels for now...

I totaly agree with you Eric, most of us into tri-colors are working with these beautiful creatures because of those flashy colors BUT ghost's in my eyes still hold great value simply because they are in fact an Hypo that is hidden within the anerythristic and hypos do clean up all subsequent generations...

I see Ghost as a cleaned up Anerythristic. What will an Extreme Ghost look like?

As for value, I too would spend my coins on a Tangerine Albino before a Ghost.

With all the honduran mutations, pattern and colors, we've only seen the tip of the iceberg!!!

I believe ther still lots of different years to working on Honduran. I can't wait to see patterness tangerine albino, patterness ghost Hybino or patterness super hypo ect.... Eric

>>... I can't wait to see patterness tangerine albino, patterness ghost Hybino or patterness super hypo ect....

Eric,

some thoughts about yet-to-be-seen hondurans...

Don't forget that a patternless extreme hypo is "just" going to be an all-orange snake...whether there will be a difference between it and a "regular" hypo that's patternless remains to be seen. But the significant change in the "extreme" hypo is in the melanistic rings, and in a patternless one those are presumably the rings that are missing, so it'll be of little consequence.

as for a patternless ghost hybino, remember a ghost is a hypo, and a hybino is a hypo, so there's a little redundancy there: what you're really describing is a triple-homozygous. And since the albino portion of the hybino eliminates the melanin of the ghost, the effects of the hypo in the ghost would be eliminated--in other words, there's no melanin to be REDUCED by the hypo portion of the ghost, so a triple homozygous hondo is presumably going to look like a snow. Its value will be in the richer variety of offspring it can produce, but NOT so much--or at all-- in its appearance.

Now on the patternless hybino, that might just be an all-orange snake too.

What i'm looking forward to (among any number of other things!) is a really nice pinstriped tangerine albino...mostly that beautiful rich orange, but with narrow pinstripes of pure white or cream color to set off the orange. That may be easier to produce than a patternless tangerine albino, but i think it'll be prettier, too.

here's a pic of a vanishing pattern extreme hypo (bottom) see how there's not much diff between it and a vanishing pattern "regular" hypo in the top pic, because the dark rings where the differences would be evident are reduced so much the change isn't very noticeable. The flesh-colored markings on the extreme are pretty dramatic--but they wouldn't exist on a patternless specimen.

(the diff in the intensity of the orange is, i think, just a function of age: the extreme is a juvenile; as it matures its skin will thicken and the orange will glow more, very likely approximating the color of the adult male regular hypo)

terry

np

...the bottom one.
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Deborah McAllister

np

The price of the balls is insane.The market is totally artificial and there are alot of non-snake monies in them.Problems occur when the price starts to drop on these as there really is no mid-market support for them.When the supply equals demand with these there will be LOTS of bankrupt lawyers,lol.But measuring ones love for snakes is and always will be completely arbitrary.....different strokes for different folks,Jeff