Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have just discovered one of my photos that I had posted in the photoforum on this website (it is also posted on my business website) on some kids "website". I emailed him to let him know he doesn't have permission to use my photo. Now I am wondering if anyone else has done this. Does anyone know how to do a search on the internet for photos? I have done searches using keywords from term papers to catch kids who cheat in my class, but i don't have the first clue how to search photos.

don't you have to have a disclaimer or property of and no use without permission type deal ? I don't know..maybe you have one of these. When I was on site of a film being shot just recently...there was no langauge in using our image in the film. If course we wasn't any of the stars either but just passer byers. How is your photos being used ? Are they used in trying to sale something ? Is the kid saying they are his photos ?

The actual photo is on my business website, he got the picture off of this forum though. You can't use people's photos without their permission for another website, my photos are personal property not public domain. He isn't selling anything, just information type stuff. As far as people taking pictures at a movie shoot, we did that stuff all the time when I lived in Savannah...they were always shooting movies there. The difference is WE TOOK THOSE photos & they were ours. You couldn't just go snag film out of a camera they were using to film with.

probably the best way to deter this or at least know that you are getting "credit" for something of yours that someone else is using is to watermark your images. Unfortunately it usually takes an incident like this for the average Joe to even consider watermarking. Personally I wouldn't see harm in someone using an image of mine...but I would at least want enough respect for someone to ask permission.

Hill....
If you want to do an image search the simplest way I can offer you is to go to www.google.com. From there, look just above the search bar, click on "Images" and enter your search parameters. It's that simple. The only drawback is that the search is for the title of the image, not what the image is actually of. An example: if you were to search for "Grape" MOST of the pics you'd see would pertain to grapes to some degree, but if someone took a pic of their monkey and entitled the pic grape, it will show up in your search.

A few pointers:

1. Use this link
http://www.google.com/advanced_image_search?hl=en
It's still Google, it's just the Advanced Image Search

2. At the bottom where it says "Safe Search" set it to "No Filtering"

3. Do separate searches for a varitey of terms. If you have pics on your site of Ball Pythons you will most likely want to do a search on Python, Python Regius, Royal, Royal Python, etc. This is primarily because when downloading your (or anyone's pics) the user is able to rename the file to whatever pleases them.

I hope this helps some.

Brandon

I tried this method, but because the image can be retitled & the img doesn't have the title in it, it was a bust. Someone on the OTHER website forum had posted good info about this exact issue & had great step by step instructions. I couldn't find the post because it is buried in some thread. He said you could right click the image & save it then do a search using the actual image with google, but I don't remember exactly how it was all done. If I remember the thread it was about someone using someone else's snake pictures to sell their snakes (imagine that). Thanks for helping me out!

There is a way to code your images on your website so that people cannot steal them directly from your website - the code forbids others from being able to right click on it and then coping/saving the image. I wish I knew how to go about doing that, but I do know it's possible as I've seen it done on websites before.
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PHWyvern

That method does not work. Yes, you can code to prevent right clicking, but there are numerous ways around it.

` I seems unrealistic to expect your pix not to be copied, when put on the Internet.
` As long as they don't take personal credit for creating them, why not let everyone enjoy them?
` So many websites have great collections of pictures from the Internet, for all to see.
` I have a large collection of pictures that I have copied, and I often post them, here and there. I just make sure to say that they're not mine.
` My own pix, I initial. I've seen them used, but so far, no one has taken credit for them.
` What the Hell. Aren't you sharing these pix, anyway. If he's just using them for information, and not taking credit for them, what's the loss to you??
` Besides all that, nothing's ever really yours until you give it away.
` Lighten up, you'll live longer !!
` `
` Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

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When I saw this post I had to giggle a little. Being an educator I would expect a little more thinking on your part. Now if I understand your post correctly, you had an image on your "business" website that you posted on a public forum. Now you are upset that your image was used on an information based website without your permission. Now, you don't say whether or not this image is protected but if it is, you still have zero ground on which to stand. You were intially the owner of that image, but once YOU placed YOUR image on a public forum it became public property (as long as it was accessed via the aforementioned public forum). In Kingsnake's privacy statement, it states:

"Please remember that any information that is disclosed in these areas becomes public information and you should exercise caution when deciding to disclose your personal information."

In this context, your image can construed as "information". You basically gave this image to the public. A very noble gesture indeed. If you were to take this to court, which I highly doubt would be worth your time, you would only have a very slight chance of successfully arguing your case. Alternatively, I would implore you to evaluate your morals. What harm did this "kid" really do? He wasn't using this image to sell a product, thereby possibly misrepresenting a product and/or damaging your business. As an educator I would find it hard to believe that you would argue against the availability of information. So let the kid use the photo, help him teach those who don't have the pleasure of attending your classes, and help further the spread of herpetological information. If all you are looking for is a credit line, just ask the kid. If he/she says no, chaulk it up as a learning experience and be thrilled another person thought your photo was good enough to use. If what you really are looking for is an ego stroke, get a dog. They love you unconditionally, even when you are being a wee bit uptight.

You REALLY need to do a little more research on copyright laws and the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, if you honestly think that posting a picture on this forum makes it public property.

You are taking Kingsnake's privacy policy out of context. Privacy policies relate to PRIVACY, not copyrights. That statement in the privacy policy basically warns against posting information that you don't want anyone to know, such as full names, addresses, etc. It does NOT give permission for people to steal pictures that they see posted on the forums for their own personal use. Kingsnake does not have the power to override copyright laws to that extreme. In fact, if you read the TOS you agreed to when you signed up, there are specific on Copyright infringements.

Straight from their TOS:
Posting copyrighted documents or photographs here without the owner's permission is a violation of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA). If you have an item that was used here without your permission, you must use our Interim Designation of Agent to Receive Notification of Claimed Infringement, following the policies and procedures as required by the DMCA. Claims of infringement that are not made as outlined in the policies and procedures of the DMCA cannot be acted upon and will be disregarded. More information on the DMCA and the procedures for notification of infringement may be found at http://lcWeb.loc.gov/copyright/.

Note that NOWHERE in that copyright section of the TOS does it say that once someone posts a picture, it is public property and that anyone can use it.

To the original poster, you have the right to have that person's website shut down. Copyright infringement should not be taken lightly, as other posters seem to think. I would contact their web host, and have them take appropriate action. Most sites, such as Yahoo's Geocities, are very cooperative, and take action against copyright infringement. I have had several sites shut down for stealing my photographs and artwork from my sites.
http://lcWeb.loc.gov/copyright/

I read somewhere (can't remember where), That there is a stipulation about THUMBNAIL sized images being public domain. This can be evidenced in other types of forums that use copyrighted material as avatars freely. Anything larger IS concidered copyrighted, and DOES require permission for use.
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Ace

I found a court case on Thumbnails deals directly with a search engine's use of thumbnails.

However, if you read the court case, you'll see it is only related to a search engine's use of thumbnails to provide searching capabilities, such as google's image search.

The court ruled that the use of thumbnails BY SEARCH ENGINES was fair use, as long as the thumbnail did not link directly to the full sized image.

http://www.phillipsnizer.com/library/cases/lib_case49.cfm

This is the only fair use of thumbnails that I can find documented. I would love for you to post more information on how you think thumbnails can be legally used for avatars. If you visit this site, you will see that it was shut down by artists whose work was being used for avatars without permission:

http://archive.gamespy.com/avatars/
Thumbnails, Fair Use and Hyperlinks: The Ninth Circuit Breaks New Ground in Kelly v. Arriba Soft

>>>>>>This is the only fair use of thumbnails that I can find documented. I would love for you to post more information on how you think thumbnails can be legally used for avatars. If you visit this site, you will see that it was shut down by artists whose work was being used for avatars without permission:

The site itself wasn't shut down by the artists, but by the owners themselves. It would appear that, rather than deal with the legalities, they just shut THEMSELVES down. The other link you provide clearly states that the use of thumbnails was determined to be fair use. Many sites that use thumbnails, use them in the same text as determined fair use in the ruling, even as avatars.

This site also states Thumbnails as fair use, not only for search engines, but all websites, using the same court case....[URL}http://www.senseient.com/bytesinbrief/bytes.asp?page=March_2002.htm[/URL]
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Ace

I disagree that any of the links say that ALL use of thumbnails is allowed. That case specifically deals with the search engine's use of the thumbnails.

If you read the court case in the link you provided, it clearly states that "Arroba's use of Kelly's images promotes the goals of the Copyright Act and the fair use exception. The thumbnails do not stifle artistic creativity because they are not used for illustrative or artistic purposes and therefore do not supplant the need for the originals. In addition, they benefit the public by enhancing information gathering techniques on the internet."

I still do not see anything on my links or the one you provided that allows fair use of thumbnails for the purpose of avatars, as all links refer to the same court case which ruled only in the favor of the search engine's use.

Take a look at the link below. It cleary states that not all thumbnail use falls under the fair use expections. All information about fair use of thumbnails relates directly to the use in "information-gathering, research, or indexing purposes"...but since there hasn't been a court case for other use of thumbnails, I don't think either you or I have a definate answer to our side of this debate. The only way we'll know for sure if avatar use is considered part of the fair use, is when someone actually takes a site to court over it, and I have yet to see that court case.
Photos and Fair Use Online: From Penthouse Pets to Kelly's Thumbnails

>>>>.I don't think either you or I have a definate answer to our side of this debate.

I'd have to concede that, after reading that article, there is no clear defintion as to whether avatars would truelly fall under fair use. It would probably take another court decision specifically about avatars, and other uses for that matter, to determine exactly what constitutes fair use.

Ace
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Ace

Thanks for the great discussion!

At worst, taking someone's photos from the internet without permission is in bad taste.

"you can't use someone's photos without permission"

That's laughable really. Sad, but true.

First rule of the internet is as soon as you put it out there it belongs to EVERYONE. ASK people not to use your pics without permission...but if they do...there's not a whole lot you can do about it.

Don't put it on the "world wide web" if you expect it to be yours alone.

That's like saying that someone can post a picture in their store window and someone can steal it, make a copy, put the original back and then use the copy in their store window. Just because the original is still there doesn't make the copy an original. It's still copyright infringement. Just because it's on the web doesn't make it public domain to use for your own site. Theft is theft regardless if it's a physical theft, or theft of intellectual property. Maybe you don't agree but the law does. Ask him to remove it or have him shut down if he doesn't. Just because it happens all the time doesn't make it any less illegal either.

I don't think its a big deal, I'm mean in the grand scheme of things doesn't this fall into the "not worth worrying about" category. Personally, I would take is as a complement. Its not like someone is selling naked pics of you or something. Don't sweat the petty things, pet the sweaty things.

Yeah, don't sweat the small stuff. I mean if someone steals the radio out of your car, don't worry about it. It's just a small radio. If they steal a diamond ring, that's really small too, so don't worry about it. If they steal your operating system (Bill Gates and Microsoft) then don't worry about it, it's just an idea. If you don't stop the small stuff then the stuff gets bigger. The only people that support this kind of stuff are probably people who do it themselves because they're to lazy to get their own pictures and design their own stuff. Try being original for a change and get your own stuff. Take pictures of your own things or your own experiences or design your own graphics. Where does it end if not here?

diamonds , etc. ) Hey on the person that said " don't sweat the petty things " do pet the sweaty things " , I'm going to use that phrase every once in a while. You don't have a > disclaimer , personal use domain, blah, blah , blah , on that phrase do ya ! LOL !

Wouldn't want to infinge .

>>When I saw this post I had to giggle a little. Being an educator I would expect a little more thinking on your part.

>> You were intially the owner of that image, but once YOU placed YOUR image on a public forum it became public property

Being an educator I would have expected that you would have done your homework a bit more thoroughly in regards to researching the basics of copyright protection.

The privacy statement of this website applies to people who may choose to disseminate their private/personal information to the public (i.e. name, address, phone number, ssn #, etc.). It is separate from the applied copyright protection pertaining to photographs that may be housed on the web or even in someone's photogallery here. Please also note that a public forum is not the same as public domain - you apparently have to two terms very much confused.

Copyright protection to a photograph applies from the moment any person takes a photograph of something. That person is not required to post any statements or notices claiming copyright ownership of that photo - such protection is automatically applied the moment that piece of work was created and fixed in a tangible format.

If a person finds a photo they like on someone else's website (or this website) and they take that photo for their own use without that person's explicit permission then they are violating that person's copyright protection plain and simple. You have to ASK for permission to use that person's work. Just because someone puts that photo out in view of the public it does not mean that anyone has the right to come by and steal it - it is NOT public domain (unless that person has a statement saying that the photo in question is free for use which would then of course make it public domain).
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PHWyvern

I emailed the kid who posted my pic right before I posted here. He has since apologized & removed the picture. He also removed several others, he said he had received them in an email from a friend (several of them) and he thought they were his pictures. Some of them might have belonged to other people using the kingsnake photogallery. For those of you who do this as a hobby...I guess it would be flattering to have your work posted...but when your work is copyrighted & used on your BUSINESS website as part of your business, it is a whole new ball game. It doesn't matter where a picture is posted, if it is copyrighted, it can't be used without permission!!! As an educator I have the right to use things that are copyrighted in my classroom. For instance, I can use any picture as part of a powerpoint presentation to help teach a lesson or I can make a copy of an article or portions of a book that is copyrighted to use in class. Believe me...I have had a lot of instruction on copyright material use! As far as a "court case" it would have never got that far. He was in violation of the TOS for the hosting service he used, 1 email from me & his website would've been taken down. I have also deleted almost all of my photos off the photogallery and purchased a watermarking software package to watermark my pics. Hopefully, that will eliminate most of the problem.

`
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>>I have just discovered one of my photos that I had posted in the photoforum on this website (it is also posted on my business website) on some kids "website". I emailed him to let him know he doesn't have permission to use my photo. Now I am wondering if anyone else has done this. Does anyone know how to do a search on the internet for photos? I have done searches using keywords from term papers to catch kids who cheat in my class, but i don't have the first clue how to search photos.

I've not only had my photos used without concent I have also had full parargraphs copied from a couple of my care sheets.
Not just rewritten excerpts but flat out cut and paste jobs.
I found these by searching under the topic of the care sheets or topic or the photos. Such as snake photos I would simple seach under snake photos.
Or even go more specific as to type of snakes.
Or searches on care sheets for specific species.
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Remember, My posts are MY opinion only!
Jimmy (draybar)