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Sort of on topic anyone know if there is a consistent variation in color or size in couperi over their range, anyone seen the Keys population or a description of an animal from the lost South Carolina populatio? An old herper (no not That "Old Herper" who knows everything about all snakes told me Florida Indigos had a deep red chin, while the ones from George tended to be blackfaced, the few I have seen with any kind of locality data did look that way but I only believe half of what he tell me & I'm never certain which half.

I'd have to agree with oldherper as usual.

Just a little different spin: There are BLACK indigos throughout the range from what I've seen.

But, generally speaking, the further south you are, the more likely it seems you will see the high red snakes. I have heard stories of like Flamingo, FL and other 'glades towns having very high red indigos.

In contrast...I have NEVER heard of a high red indigo from GA.
All of the GA snakes seem to be all black, with just a touch of white or a touch of red on the underside of the chin.

see this link, from the GA DNR.

I believe this is about as much red/orange as you will see on GA specimens...

That first animal is very nice looking...actually, my largest female looks almost exactly like that animal.

http://www.shrike.net/herps/snakes/210-indigosnake.htm

That one is the spitting (hissing?) image of my first Indigo. Perhaps it was a GA animal.

Pretty impressive snake, I tend to like the black ones better... tell me what is the most northerly locale you would find a couperi these days?? Reason I ask is because a few years back I was in a little place called 'Stillwell' near the west banks of the Savannah River in Effingham County, GA. Was looking for Okeetee Corns (found some as well) but 1 of the locals told me after I told him what I was upto if I was REAL lucky I could see an Indigo.

As for the coloring of Florida Indigos I was told years ago by Tom Crutchfield & Bill Love that the reddish specimens are usually in the Miami area or southwest of that. Homestead is known as 1 of the Indigo hotspots down there as well as known for it's specimens with red going 1/4 to 1/3 down their undersides......

Never been lucky enough to spot one in the wild but when I do hopefully I'll be 'camera ready' I know where 1 Indigo hangs out in Venice under a guy's pine tree, have done vigils with a camera at different times of the day but to no avail. Will be down in Florida in October.. who knows maybe I'll get lucky.

Dean

>>Sort of on topic anyone know if there is a consistent variation in color or size in couperi over their range, anyone seen the Keys population or a description of an animal from the lost South Carolina populatio? An old herper (no not That "Old Herper" who knows everything about all snakes told me Florida Indigos had a deep red chin, while the ones from George tended to be blackfaced, the few I have seen with any kind of locality data did look that way but I only believe half of what he tell me & I'm never certain which half.

A fellow by the name of Tom Yarbrough told me that years and years ago, and I've never seen any evidence to the contrary. I've never seen a red-chinned Indigo from Georgia. I have seen black-faced ones from North Florida, but never from south Florida. I've only seen a photo of a white-chinned individual, but I don't know where it came from.
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We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

The farthest south I've ever found indigos is in the kennedy space center / merritt island area, which is about 1/2 way down the FL peninsula on the east coast

MOST of the specimens from there were actually black faced, typically with a touch of red under the chin. There were a few with brownish-red faces, but no real "red" phase animals.
(I've seen about 10-12)

I have seen about a hundred indigos in west central Florida (Tampa Bay area) over the last thirty years and they are quite variable. While the total white chins seem to be rare (in this area), white chins with slight mahoganey red are the most common, and occasionally you will see one with about 1/4 of the front part with red. Those I have seen in other parts of Florida, seem to go along with Deans thoughts, farther south more red....but haven't seen enough to really make any hard statements.

You've seen over a 100 in W. central Florida?
Over what preiod of time?

Are they still relatively common there?

133 to be exact...that also includes road kills (18). That is over a 31 year period. I do not spend near the time in the field that I use to. One of the places that use to support a sizeable population of indigo's, I would see on average one every three hours of walking the area. I have spent about twenty hours of walking that area this year. Unfortunatly, I have seen only three road kills their and know live ones, and upon examining two of them, they did not appear to be in good health at all. One had a severe case of belly rot and the other looked very very thin. Some substantial changes have taken place in that area the last five years. The area consisted of about six square miles of river corridor with grazing cattle. The phophate mines owned most of the land. They cleared cut and bulldozed half of it in about a six month period. The other part was purchased by the State for preservation and all of the cattle removed. This caused a very dense undergrowth to take over, which I believe made it less suitable habitat for them. Also I now see and abundance of racers, which I hardly ever saw before. I do still see them occasionally here and there, but not like I use too. Up until about five years ago I would see anywhere between 8 to 15 a year. Now I might see one or two a year. Probably has more to do with my poor eyesite then there lack of abundance! But like everywhere...habitat is disappearing to quickly for them.

That's amazing. Most field researchers don't see that many individual Indigos in the field during an entire career. Count yourself extremely lucky. I hope you got a lot of photographs.
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We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children. Ralph Waldo Emerson

Well...luck always plays a part in field work...but if one spends enough time in the right habitat during the right hours the chances go up. Though I consider myself an "oldtimer" now, the "oldtimers" of my day told me that they use to catch seven or eight a day around some of the hammacks. Chuck Nadle told of a story of a friend of his who had a large king cobra that fed exclusevly on indigos!! I remember purchasing my first one from Ross Allen in 1962 for $10.00. The REA bill was $6.00. The snake turned out to be a female that layed seven eggs. No disrepect for Dean....but I was the first Ohio kid who was in love with drymarchon!! : ) The main reason I moved to Florida was so I could study and observe them in the wilds.