Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i am building a cage 8 foot long by 2 foot wide by 4 foot tall and i have a black throat and a savannah the question is sould i put in a divider half way between the cage to make two stories or house them togather.

They both live in the same area and habitats in the wild. So I wouldn't fret over housing them together. But it's really up to you. A divider is a better idea than building a two story.

-John May

you should study up before writing posts to people. that is a bad idea and something i would expect to see at a bad petco, not at a monitor keeper's place.

andrew

You obviously have not kept these two animals or you would know that as long as they both get along. You do this by putting them together for short amounts of time per visit. If they don't fight after about a month or so they are fine to be put together. do it daily. They eat the same in their diets and live in the same environments in the wild. If you haven't tried this before DO NOT...I repeat DO NOT put them together. a divider would limit the space...therfor you would need another cage or a much bigger one and a divider.lol. Expiriment

-John may

yes, i have kept them. i keep lots of monitors and i know that with those two there are dangers.

seriously, wake up.

andrew

You may not realize this, but you are acting like a pissed/disproved teenager. I don't doubt that you have taken care of "many" monitors. The problem with it is...it can be dangerous without the proper STUDY. But if they seem to get along there isn't a problem. My NILE monitor COUPLE stays in the same cage as my WATER MONITOR COUPLE when I take an HOUR to clean out their cage.

Without the proper care and study it CAN BE DANGEROUS. Do what you will. I think it is very interesting when they live together, very educational if it works out. BUT it has its down points. Less room when shared by two animals, harder to tell how much each eats because two share. It is overall harder to keep two different speicies in the same cage. It's allup to you in the end.

i am done. do what you want man. kill your monitors if you want to. keep them less than ideally if you want to. i have done this for a while, maybe i have no idea what i am saying here.

just remember you are giving advice that somebody is probably listening intently to, do you want to give them good or bad advice? oh well.

andrew

I am sorry, sorry that you seem to have a reading problem. I told him there are risks, I told him to do what he thinks is best. I told him what I think and you told him what you think. So is there a problem?

-John

poor andrew...just calm down lol

Ever gets only heavier and stronger to another WT in seconds if I hadnt interceded. Im sorry but WTs look at bosc as a meal, Ive kept several of both. A 5-7ft WT would happily eat a 2.5-4 ft bosc anytime, after all they are notorious lizard eaters.

That is not true. You do not need a minimum that he described. Black throats don't climb very high, nor savannahs, they don't need to climb FOUR FEET IN THE AIR. There is enough room for both...Divider or house them together

-John May

again, go study up, then come back and write.

blackthroats do climb and do so quite well.

andrew

They CAN CLIMB but that doesnt mean they necessarily want to. I have two adults in an eight by six by three cage. They dont climb and there are branches everywhere. once they get too big climbing is not possible unless you have a really really sturdy/fat branch. Yes they can climb, but it doesn't mean that they want to. Judging by the expiriences you've had do your monitors like to climb?

-John May

Water and Nile Monitor enthusiast

you mean that they don't climb the skinny branches they are afraid of breaking and falling off of. man, i did not know.

Are you trying to make a point? I think we are both intelligent enough to know that it is dangerous, sorry, CAN be dangerous. But it isn't up to us now is it?

wow that is the best ever reply to a post that i have ever had. all though i found it quite comic it did help. the idea went againse my better judgement so that is why i asked. although i have seen it done before it doesnt mean it will work out for me so i will put in a divider. now they will be confined to an 8x2x2 each instead of sharing an 8x4x2 so thanks for the advice and the laughs

Kicknox

Keept them in separate cages, separate from each other and offer both the ability or equipment to climb (not little skinny branches)(bigger heavier pieces). I have 2 adult BT/WT/WT crosses one is ^ft 2 inches long (female), she climbs our grapevine, appletree, lilacs (until they break), etc yes they can and will spend as much time in the trees (high actually) in the wild as they do on the ground. Use some common sense in the advice you take, I had several albigs WC and CBB, Andrew has had them to.

Smaller in size she almost killed her uncle was much stronger than any bosc and he is a bit shorter than her, but it happened in about 3 seconds, luckily I was right there.

Your best advice on this situation, is don't house them together. That isn't to say it isn't possible, but to say it is possible also doesn't say that it is a good idea. I wouldn't with those to spieces probably. But I have successfully co-inhabited enclosures between two different spieces of monitors. Ex- My Nile Monitor Pair and my Water Monitor Pair. Also My Ionides Pair with my Roughneck Trio. But I wouldn't advise it if you haven't had the proper experience in breeding and overall caring for the monitors. It takes alot to do things like that, and you always have to be around...but besides my success, I would say YOUR BEST ADVICE IS TO NOT PUT THEM IN THE SAME ENCLOSURE. I ALSO WOULDN'T SUGGEST USING A DIVIDER, I THINK TWO DIFFERENT CAGES ARE A MUCH BETTER IDEA. HAVE YOU EVER HAD A FULL GROWN IONIDES? I HAVE TWO, THEY ARE LIKE LIZARD BULLDOZERS WHEN THEY SMELL FOOD OR SEE SOMETHING INTERESTING. YOUR DIVIDER WILL BECOME RUBBLE.

-John May Water and Nile Monitor Enthusiast

I guess since Sobek is still only 2.5 years old and only 6 feet and 2 inches long (largest female albig on record, ask Mark Bayless, she matched a much older animal whos dead now), shes still growing so actually shes not full grown, and she can carry around 85lb living room chairs, rip the doors completely off of her cage and throw them even with the stainless steel lock on it. I venture to guess youve never seen a full grown Blackthroat, Ive seen a 7ft 3 inch male, a 6ft 6inch male, and one or 2 6ft males (years ago), along with a few 5ft females, I have access to a few albigs between 4-5 ft long (ones a FR banded WT, ones a "sienna Leguaan". Ive had a few 4.5-5 ft male BTs that were wild caught before my old vet experimented with deworming them and my husbandry wasnt so good.
This is Sobek, my little female at 6ft 2 inches...

From Rob Faust.. Hes taken on the banded WT size and physical shape, hes 4ft and ove r10lbs, like their father was.

This is Blaize, hes is 5ft long and a Sienna Leguaan, but still growing.

Hes not full grown but for average banded WTs close to 4ft. I have several more large albigs to post pics of but I guess they arent full grown either. The question is being that an Ionides is actually a V.Albigularis. Albigularis not Ionides anymore, have you ever seen a full grown Albig or can you show me some that are bigger than mine or my one friends 2 animals. I have pics of 3 more albigs yet.

I hope I do things right and Fluffy turns out as nice as your albigs. My wife loves seeing pics of Sobeck but, I must admit I am partial to Blaize.

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

Breaking the panels, and squeezing in then ripping wiring and plumbing out. BAD lizard!! Hes a neat pet and is a big hissy bluffer that eats like a bottomless pit and has a neat bump (calous) almost like a small horn on his nose from digging with it.

V. albigularis is arboreal, spending some 3-5 months in acacia trees or Mopane woodland trees through much of their brumation period (Summer months). They become lethargic and only move to mate, then become quite listless for months of year (Coe, 1998); on the other side, V. exanthematicus is a more active ground dweller/excavating burrows and such which it is proficient at. TO say monitors are not arboreal, well it is good to have these branches in their terraria to offer them exercise, as we all know Varanus often become fat-bas$ards when eating alot, with little exercise to burn off the calories and such...their fat body organs should be about ~5% of their total body weight, but I have 12" wide (load!) V. exanthematicus as big around as a dinner plate unable to move much less walk = needs exercise!
They also suffer from cholesterol maladies as humans do, enlarged hearts and other fat-a$$ related maladies...give them branches whether they use them or not, it offer them choices, and the more choices the better...
cheers'
mbayless

Mark comes through and sets 'em straight!!!

My female wt will climb to the top of her enclosure everyday. My male won't climb jack$hit, cause hes not all there. My outdoor enclosure for them is 8x4x4.

Albigs spend almost or as much time in the trees as on or underground, hence one of their favorite prey items tree nesting birds. They are very very adept climbers.

On rare occaisions they can be found in the same geographic regions but the V. Exanthematicus is a medium sized species that has been known to be a meal for the V. Albigularis on occaision. Most probably why its rare to find them together in the wild. Actually most bosc are found farther north closer to the equator. A bit further down I explained this, WTs eat cobras, cobras eat bosc, it would stand to reason a bosc would be a good meal for a WT.
You suggested "sure, I wouldnt fret keep em together", now this guy puts them together and his bosc gets killed and eaten, so now he blames you. Research before you give advice.

Hi,
There is one locality reported I know, maybe 2-3 others in the literature where these animals 'may' cohabitate? In an around the the Burundi southern lowland both V. albigularis and V. exanthematicus may coexist...and a few places in northern Kenya/Uganda area are a few other possibilities...

I kept V> albigularis and V. exanthematicus together for years - the only problem being when they slept, the albigs always wanted to sleep where the exanthematicus were! Feeding time was a social event, all feeding together, rather cohesively too, but due to size differences, when albigs can become very large, and V. exanthematicus rarely reach over 3 feet (the largest V. exanthematicus I had was 5 feet total length), this can cause undo stress for the latter...

good luck,
mbayless

you should put the sav in that cage because you can house it for life in there. the blackthroat will need a 8x4x4 minimum as an adult.

andrew

To tell you the truth. I think you should build two cages and buy more lights and heating. In the end you'll save even though more money will be spent initially on lighting and heating.

This is my final decision, it is what I think you should do.

-John May

Water and Nile Monitor enthusiast

Yes albigs and savs do come from the same areas in Africa. Albigs love to eat the fat little savs. When your 6 foot lizard eats your 3 1/2 foot lizards I hope you get some good pics.

Sarcasm From
Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

im not sure we are seeing eye to eye on this once i put the divider in they will be two seprate cages with two seprate heating elements two septate every thing tow cages one divider.

This may work for you, but you may need to make alot of adjustments. Take them out often for exercise. Also the cage is only 4 foot so if you cut it in half you get 2 but what about substrate? Do you only use paper towels? Cause if you use dirt you'll soon find 2 foot is not enough.

If one cage is above another remember the heat from the bottom will rise to the floor of the top cage. This can cause overheating.

IMO it is much easier to build two seperate specific cages for them.

What are you planning to use as a divider? Albigs are very strong animals and if it smells food on the other side, your divider just might get ripped down.
As for stacking cages, I use duct board as an insulator between them. I noticed without it the substrate drys out too fast.

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

For on albig, cut in half its 4x4x2, not even big enough for an adult bosc. My female albig ripps the doors off of her cage as it is, they are 4.5x2ft plexi held in by tracks and a stainless cage lock, guess what she rips the doors out of the track out of the lock and throws them halfway across the room on occaision. Ive been using duct tape to help prevent this sometimes, its good to be prepared for an animal that can carry living room chairs around the house.

Trust me you would rather have a cage(s) that are 100% secure.
As far as them living in the same area I wouldn't put my bearded dragons in with a perentie. The best advice do alot of research on the forum and read back posts I am sure these thing have been discussed before. It does seem like some people are giving mediocre advice.

J/W. But who is giving mediocre advice, pertaining to which animals as well? -John May Water and Nile Monitor Enthusiast