Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here we go again...

When we bought Merlin, he had pinworms. After treating the pinworms, we were never able to get rid of the coccidia that popped up after treatment. (wrong does by vet, not enough cleaning) Well, finally the coccidia is gone but now she says he has tricomonas organisms.

Where the heck did that come from? We were given Metronidazole for treatment (once a week for three weeks) but didn't get to talk to her about disinfecting. We went to newspapers and sprayed down his branch everyday for a week before giving it back to him two weeks later (little paranoid, I know but after so long I didn't want him to get it back)

I'm going to be talking to her tomorrow but just wondered if anyone else had any information on this. We feed crickets from the store (none wild caught) pellets and greens.

Thanks in advance for any help. (sorry if I spelt it wrong, couldn't read her handwriting)

Don't know where he got them from but trich's pretty easy to get rid of, a good round of antibiotics should do the trick if I remember right. Is there a chance that your vet may be being overcautious, some parasite load is completely normal in beardies because of the things they eat.

Sean
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Heart Mountain Herps

I think one thing that many people are overlooking is that if your animal is eating well and is healthy and you get a fecal done and it comes back with for example Coccidia, Pinworms, and Flagellates that does not mean you need to treat. Many uninformed vets will treat anything they see regardless of the parasite load. In this case the Antihelminthics (Antiworms) ,Antibiotics, and Antiflagellates are going to do more harm than good. It is for this exact reason that resistant strains of organisms are popping up left and right. Basically it is for this reason that I have a job.

Another thing that everybody keeps talking about is getting rid of their beardies Coccidia. It is ridiculously hard to eradicate Coccidia and just because you treat it with Albon does not mean it is gone. Even if you don't see it in the fecals for a couple of months that does not mean it has been eradicated. So when people say oh this drug gets rid of that and this drug gets rid of that keep in mind it is probably just lowering numbers to a manageable parasite load. Bearded dragons as well as many other animals live with parasites in the wild but in captivity those same parasties can cause a superinfection b/c of constant contact with fecal matter and infected prey carrying the oocysts,worms, and/or Ova. If you can keep your cages spic and span and void of fecal matter than your dragons parastite load will not build up as quickly or to a dangerous level. Of course everything is not this simple, but my main point is that not everything needs to be treated and I would not be going out on a limb to say that a high percentage of DVM's are going to give you a drug for your beardie regardless of the parastite load your dragon is carrying. Not because it will make your BD feel better but b/c it will make you/the owner feel better.

Again This is my opinion and everbody better listen.....lol
-Randy

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AlphaDragonZ
www.AlphaDragonZ.com

n/p
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Joel R

Coming Soon!
www.SpikesAndScales.com

This new vet took the time to explain that most reptiles, even cats and dogs, have some coccidia in their system and as long as it doesn't cause a problem, it should be left alone. (I already knew this from this site) Merlin, obviously had a problem.

The reason we kept bringing in fecals was because ever since we have had him, even though he ate normal, grew and shedded, Merlin has had messy wet, EXTREMELY smelly poo. I figure that over the year that we have had him, he has had less then a dozen normal poos.

So, in this instance, it is necessary for some kind of treatment to be done.

AlphaDragonZ made some very good points about some parasites and worms being normal to be found in them, and given time and cleaning support brought under control by the dragon himself.... by bringing them into captivity, we took them away from the normal ground they roam where they pick up small amounts of these, from the enviroment or dragons that previous were in the area and it develops their immune systems.

I understand that your beardie has smelly runny poo..... but that can also occur when the gut fuana is stripped or out of balance and medications are the biggest cause of that. It can start a cycle that is never ending.

I am the first to agree that a dragon who's health is compromised, should be treated, but just runny/smelly poo alone does not make a compromised health dragon. Many other things such a liver enzymes imbalance, gout, yeast blooms can cause it, and when fecals are done, of course the normal run of coccidia, pinworms or flagellets are found and blamed..... when in fact they are not a problem.

Those are treated, sometimes causing more problems as when medications are given, they not only attack the bad bacteria.... but most bacterias, even those needed for normal digestions and what keeps the digestive tract balanced, often credited too with keeping pancreas and other organs functioning to halt things like diabetes in the future.

We have one with genetic gout... his poos can run you out of the room...(thank heavens he only goes once a week!)... but that is good, it tells us the meds he has to take to live are working. Another that had a spinal injury was terrible also while he was on predisones, but corrected when the meds were stopped... each of these had several fecals over the course of several months and parasites came and went at differnt times with no treatement.

On a group of babies we raised, we followed their development with regular fecals and all at one time or another showed some coccidia, pinworms and flagellets in their stools, yet allowed to deal with them theirselves, they did within 2 weeks to a month. They seemed to be a peak in them between 3-5 months old and then from 7 months on they have been clear of all...... I thought this interesting that with no treatment, they not only got rid of them, but have not showed anything else in almost 6 months.... perhaps allowing them to deal with it themselves, has make them more immune to those problems that are ingested in feeders and greens.

If a dragon is not showing signs of illness...... maybe a two weeks support period with cleaning and keeping them on good diets and lights (heat and UVB) then repeat the test, I think would result in more people and vets being surprised that this is something that is normal for them and a stage they need to go through to have good immune systems.
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www.reptilerooms.com

Merlin was kept very clean. He was cared for the best possible. I researched before buying him and always had the correct temperature, humidity and light. He is fed a varied diet of greens, reptical pellets and crickets with T-rex vitamins and calcium. So the care part is covered.

He has had three different vets look at him. All saying he is a very healthy lizard. His stool sample showed large amounts of coccidia. After the first vet's multiple treatments, we left him to see if it worked. Then more time still until we could find a new vet. Remember, this was over a year's time.

Whenever I read a post on poo, it would always say, "It should be solid with white urites. There is something wrong if it is wet, especially smelly and should been seen by a vet"

Now everyone is telling me I did wrong by bringing him to the vet and no one has answered my orginal question.

Sorry, never meant to imply that you were wrong taking an animal you are concerned about to a vet. But the fact is that few vets know much about bearded dragons, or reptiles in general, it is not something they study in school and you have to balance thier knowledge of what they have learned about parasite, worms, bacterias, meds and what you know about you species.

To answer your question: Well, finally the coccidia is gone but now she says he has tricomonas organisms. Where the heck did that come from?

I was trying to indicate that sometimes by totally wiping out something in an animal that is not showing any problems, you weaken their immune system and kill off other organisms that help them fight off other problem parasites. Trichonoma always needs to be treated, it can become very serious, but an animal that already has a compromised immune system , is going to be more susceptible than one with a healthy immune system.

Trichonomas main transfer vector in reptiles is feeders and water that has been infected, possibly rain run offs from cattle land into argiculture lands. Mice are thought to be a common source of Trichonomas infections in reptiles
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www.reptilerooms.com

Well, I guess I'll have to stop letting him run around with cattle and mice now. He was having so much fun too.

We have been giving him Acidophilus during his treatment, knowing that it is important to maintain. It is the one that I regularly take. Is there one made for reptiles available? I have seen it for birds, dogs, cats, goats and horses but not reptiles. And how do you know the doseage? Right now we just dust one cricket with it.

Rain run off of cattle land to agriculture land = feces infected water on the greens and veggies.

Mice as a transfer vector = SOME people feed pinkies to a dragon, it gets infected with trichomona and then infects others or recycled crickets can possibly carry it that have been in with infected animals. You asked HOW your beardie could have gotten it, I was trying to explain some of the ways it is passed
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www.reptilerooms.com

I meant that to be a joke not an insult. I should have done that thing so you would know. The second explaination did clear up how though. Thanks.

>>We have been giving him Acidophilus during his treatment, knowing that it is important to maintain. It is the one that I regularly take. Is there one made for reptiles available?

Yup! It's called AcidophiLiz+. We got Oolong's at Petsmart, & it's sold in bunches of places online.
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~Alice

1.0 Bearded Dragon (Oolong)
0.1 ferret (Lil' Guy)
7.4 cats (Angel, Goblin, Hush, Kirin, Sammy, Squee, Toes, Feets, Gypsy, Kana, Raisen)

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