Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well it has been quite some time since I took any pictures of my FWCs. Today seemed good as any to get some shots off. This pair is just about a year old and a bit over 40". Hope you all enjoy them.

Regards,
Wes

Here's the female being her inquisitive self once the cage door has opened.

Here's my male FWC.

The 6' Vision cage I house the pair in. I use aspen bedding as the substrate and use a ceramic heat emitter hooked up to a Ranco thermostat to heat the cage. They seem to enjoy the large water bowl made from a plastic storage container.

Here's the pair together. They've done quite fine cohabitating together since I've received them. They are, of course, fed separatly in feeding containers. Once they're done feeding they're left alone for 15-20 mins before being reintroduced to the cage. They sure are starting to show the stereotypically FWC feeding response, but have yet to show any hunger-related interest in each other once reintroduced. Again I hope you enjoyed the pictures.

Regards,
Wes

Awesome pictures and excellent setup! When I had a large adult pair of FWCs, I housed them together as well with no problems. I always fed them separately and gave them the "cool down" period you described and things always went smoothly. Anyway, very nice setup. I'll be receiving a couple of Visions around the end of this week for a couple elapids I have, so I'll finally get to test them and see how they work.
-Chance

Vision isnt the best choice for elapids. The snakes can hide under or on the shelf that the glass slides on. I thought I had an escape but it turned out that the snake was hiding on the top shelf over the glass. Also, the sliding glass leaves a gap between them for smaller snakes to escape though.

Just be warned.

Thanks for the warning. I'm aware of the potential problem of the lips creating a hiding spot. Of course, I will not open the enclosure until I am sure of where the snakes are. They are too large to make it out through the crack in the glass, but you're right, it would be a bad idea to house very young snakes in them. I know of a person who had a spectacled cobra juvenile escape from the enclosure via that crack, so it is definitely something to watch out for.
-Chance

I worry about live bearing snakes too. Im not sure if any elapids are live bearing, but I know rattlesnakes are, and therefore I wouldnt keep any in vision cages. Im still trying to find a good cage to keep them in, I really like vision but the "ambush shelf" and the space between the glass makes for a bad venomous cage.

If they are ever in that spot, you probably wont be albe to get them with hooks or tongs either. Feel around the cage before you put them in, I didnt and it really shocked me when I found where my snakes were hiding.

Thanks again for the tips. I've never used Vision myself, but know a number of people who have and they are pretty satisfied. They are running a pretty good deal right now on their Model #400s, so I decided to take advantage of it.

As far as elapids being live bearing, there are some species that are, but most are egg layers. It is sort of like viperids. There are a few select egg laying viperids, but most give live birth. The majority of live bearing elapids come from Australia (death adders, tiger snakes, some blacksnakes, etc), but there are also the Rinkhal's spitters from Africa. I personally wish there were more live bearing elapids available in US markets, but until Australia opens up (lol!) we're pretty limited. Anyway, if I have any difficulties with these enclosures, I'll let you know.
-Chance

A little off topic, but you said Australian snakes are hard to come by in the us right? I wanted to get ahold of a tiger and red belly black when I get my permit, are these going to be impossible to obtain?

The likelyhood of obtaining either species is remote. The more important question is why would compel you (as a beginner) to want to take on two highly deadly snakes?

Those are species that are Extremely dangerous for handlers with years of experience working with venomous. I have worked with venomous for over thirty years and there is no way I would risk snakes like that in my home collection. If you read these forums; what makes you think anyone in their right mind would attempt that without extensive (supervised) training?

I would suggest picking something a lot less Lethal and learning to safely work with that before even considering working with very fast and mobile snakes that could kill you easily.

Frank
-----
"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

>>The likelyhood of obtaining either species is remote. The more important question is why would compel you (as a beginner) to want to take on two highly deadly snakes?

Actually, red-bellied blacks are not all that dangerous - fatalities are as good as unknown, although a good bite certainly will land you in hospital. Roughly copperhead grade, in other words. If anything, P. porphyriacus would make the ideal introduction to larger elapids.

Tiger snakes are of course highly lethal, but relatively manageable in terms of size and speed, as large elapids go.

Cheers,

WW
-----
WW Home

Not to argue the point, as I personally know little about red bellied black snakes, but the information in my library contradicts your statement. Even Cogger lists them as "DANGEROUS". Thus my warning.

Still, the point here that it is not a safe snake in the hands of a young "inexperienced handler holds true.

Frank
-----
"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

WW is correct. Red-bellied bites are not likely to be lethal but this doesn't mean things will be pleasent. Cogger of course errs on the side of caution as lableing them as dangerous (they are still a large venomous snake) and some of the other Pseudechis that can look similar if you don't know snakes, are indeed well documented as producing lethal envenomations.

In Oz they are an excellent starter elapid since they are very mellow, easy to care for and not likely to kill you. A much better choice than monocleds (which can be utter nutcases sometimes and are of couse lethal).

All the best
Bryan
-----
Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Australian Venom Research Unit,
University of Melbourne
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Population and Evolutionary Genetics Unit,
Museum Victoria
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.venomdoc.com

I bow to the experts on this one....But then (tigerwise....) One out of two ain't bad (lol)

Frank
-----
"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I agree, tiger snakes are not suitable as a first-time elapid (even here in Oz). They are large, highly aggressive snakes (particularly the mainland form, the island forms can be much more mellow) with a well documented lethal evenomation (and permanent damage to the kidneys being a possibility if the person lives). They are also high maintence crapping machines.

Cheers
Bryan

Of coarse, I plan to get all the training necessary. These are just two of my three favorite elapids (the other being the banded krait) and I would love the opportunity to keep them one day. I am going to start with some mangroves and FWC, and some rattlesnakes, and get training and antivenom before keeping those species, but they are on my future "most wanted" list of snakes that I hope to keep and breed.