Reptile & Amphibian Forums

While I don't own a hognose snake, I am quite curious about them. and now with a bit of reading I am terribly confused.
I was under the impression that hognose snakes were harmless according to the informaion available at various Michigan Nature Centers, where they had a live one that the ranger even took out and handled. Now I have heard that they are rear-fanged, what does this mean?
One other question. While we were at this nature center they were offering prizes for people to bring in toads. Apparently they had previously had it on "toad-flavored" mice, but after feeding him a toad he would no loner eat them. How in the world do mice become "toad-flavored"? o_O

Rear-fanged snakes are just snakes that have their "venom" in the fangs in the back of their mouths. Their venom is usually just their saliva, it will often stun prey. Making the mice "toad-flavored" would just mean they scent the mice by rubbing a toad on them, making it smell like a toad.
Michael
Michael's Place

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I feed my SK other snakes, that doesn't make me a bad person, don't cry about it next time(there will be a next time lol)
Michael's Place FREE caresheets on colubrids check it outMichael_Fedzen@hotmail.com

Hi Michael,

Nice shot of the albino ringneck. Very nice indeed.

>>Rear-fanged snakes are just snakes that have their "venom" in the fangs in the back of their mouths. Their venom is usually just their saliva,

The venom is actually exactly that. Not toxic saliva but venom containing 10 of the same toxin types that elapids and vipers also share (some of the toxins are ancestral, going back to the common ancestor of all the venomous snakes). They've also developed a number of new activities, we've already purified some with quite novel modes of action.

>it will often stun prey

This is correct. Normally these sorts of snakes (eg. ringnecked snakes) have are able to stun their prey item (which is the whole point of having venom) but not typically be able to cause notable symptoms in humans. Not because the venom is less toxic, we just had a paper come out showing that drop for drop many are just as potent as some elapids. Rather, it comes down to how much is secreted and how much actually delivered. The delivery architecture isn't as advanced as the atractaspidids, elapids. viperids or the boomslang, those refinements independently evolved later

>. Making the mice "toad-flavored" would just mean they scent the mice by rubbing a toad on them, making it smell like a toad.

A common problem of course. We used to just stuff lots of mice and rats down ratsnakes and reticulated pythons for our king cobras, Much less messy than dipping rats in snake muscle and skin thats gone through the blender!!

Cheers
Bryan
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Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry
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Australian Venom Research Unit,
University of Melbourne
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Population and Evolutionary Genetics Unit,
Museum Victoria
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http://www.venomdoc.com

I can imagine caring for one of these things can be quite annoying, lol.

Don't be confused. Yes, the hognose is toxic, however it should not scare you off. Unless you have a severe allergy to their toxin, you should not worry about it. I have been bitten by hognose a few times and have let them chew on me for awhile (approx. 5 min.) and suffered only itching and slight swelling. The only thing I would say was unique was the amount and duration of the bleeding which was considerable for the size of snake. The bite did not hurt that bad. Being tagged by a boid is far worse.This should not imply that these snakes are aggressive. They are known for their impressive defensive display. Feigning death, puffing, hissing, and closed mouth striking are all presented by hognose. Hognose are typically shy and placid. If you go with one, start with a CB western hognose and I guarantee that you will be won over by their charm. They are awesome. As far as scenting mice, most CB westerns take pinky mice readily. If you need to scent a mouse you have two choices. First take your mouse and rub it on the glands located near the toad's head. This should be sufficient. If this fails, you have a very nasty alternative left. Take a prekilled toad and put it in a blender (gross, I know). Once liquified, dip the mouse into the broth. Nasty, nasty, nasty, but effective. Good luck!

My mom'll never let me get a snake. She's still considering the grow-a-frog kit... *sighs*
I've been encouraged to get a cornsnake as a first snake. on the otehr hand, how large do hognose snakes get? Do they take to handling well?

Western hognose are generally tame and quite tractable. They don't get large at all, usually about two feet at maturity. I would say that a cornsnake is a fantastic first snake, very easy to care for and they come in a variety of color and pattern morphs. However, I think Western hognose are just as easy to care for and they have very unique personalities. They always smile (due to their head shape) and mine never musk me. Both are good choices. As far your mom is concerned, you must convince her that these snakes are generally harmless, very easy to care for, and make very rewarding pets. Good luck!
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Mollyskali

"Fill your bowl to the brim and it will spill. Keep sharpening your knife and it will blunt. Chase after money and security and your heart will never unclench. Care about people's approval and you will be their prisoner. Do your work, then step back. The only path to serenity." - Lau-tzu - Tao Te Ching