Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have 6 cornsnakes right now and I love them, but I'd like something more challenging, more alert, more active, and in general, more impressive.

My thoughts lean towards a Red-Tailed Green Ratsnake, a Tiger Ratsnake, a Cave Dwelling Beauty Ratsnake, or an Albino Radiated Ratsnake.

My main interest lies in the Green Ratsnake, but I've heard that they aren't very easy to handle and care for. On the other hand, I've talked to this one guy who said that he hasn't seen any snake that doesn't calm down with consistent handling. As an example, I said that I had thought that Spilotes were generally a very aggressive snake but he let me handle one and it was more tame than some of my corns, though more alert and active.

Can anyone give me their opinions as to whether I should just take the leap and get one or should I just get a "beginner" (non-North American) ratsnake, like a Taiwan Beauty, as my first step into other snakes?
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alstiver@hotmail.com

1.0 2001 Coral snow cornsnake
0.1 2002 Pastel Ghost poss Het Amelanistic cornsnake
1.1 2002 Bloodred cornsnakes
0.1 1998 Het Hypo, Het Caramel cornsnake
1.0 2000 Hypo Het Caramel cornsnake
0.0.13 2004 Eggs (potentially normals, hypos, caramels, and ambers)

I think all of your choices are very good. I have worked with and enjoyed every snake on your list. However, I'd hate to recommend any of them if ease of handling was a primary concern.

Of those I'd say Red-Tailed Ratsnakes are the hardest to handle and have the lowest availability of captive-bred stock. But they are also my favorite (it's the only genus I keep right now) so I'll always encourage those with an interest to buy CB specimens if they can find them.

Captive born Tiger Ratsnakes are available and I've seen dozens of specimens that were handleable. Primary thing I'd have you consider is their eating and deficating habits - they do both copiously. They also require large cages.

The Radiated and Cave Dwellers will be the easiest to care for but I say that from the perspective of having only worked with wild-caught Tiger Ratsnakes. I'm sure CB Tigers are as easy as Radiated and Cave Dwellers.

I don't have a lot of experience with Taiwans but I doubt the differences between them and Cave Dwellers are significant enough for you to worry about. Maybe someone here can offer more advice on that specifically.

Thanks for the info.

Regarding "ease of handling," that depends on your interpretation.

I don't mind an actively moving snake, but I'd prefer it to not be biting me constantly while doing so.

I've been bit by quite a few wild black racers, water snakes, and garters and while I know that they are different from these ratsnake, as long as the species I pick isn't worst than these species, I think I'd be okay with them.

One thing I've wondered about, do they seem to go for the face when they do strike? That's one worry I have, though I do wear glasses so even if I did take a hit, it shouldn't be too bad.
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alstiver@hotmail.com

1.0 2001 Coral snow cornsnake
0.1 2002 Pastel Ghost poss Het Amelanistic cornsnake
1.1 2002 Bloodred cornsnakes
0.1 1998 Het Hypo, Het Caramel cornsnake
1.0 2000 Hypo Het Caramel cornsnake
0.0.13 2004 Eggs (potentially normals, hypos, caramels, and ambers)

It does sound like you and I have different interpretations of ease of handling. After reading this last post I do think, regretfully, that I'd recommend you avoid a Red-Tailed Ratsnake for now.

I think you could easily get used to an active and "bitey" species. But if you're concerned at all about getting bit in the face it might be wise to avoid the longer species you listed. If that's the case then the radiated might be the best choice.

A radiated ratsnake bite will hurt worse than that of a water snake or racer. At least they have to me. But I've also heard that these snakes will calm down. I make no attempts to tame down any of my snakes so I'm not really sure.

I think a radiated ratsnake will help you learn a lot about working with the faster, bitier, and more aggressive species. But there will less concern about having a large snake with attitude going ballistic on you.

If you're staying with the ratsnakes then the taiwan beauty is actually one of the bigger snakes you'll find (and they can be a little high strung). If you are looking for nervous and active then the Gonyosoma and Spilotes are good candidates. They're also both arboreal and tropical so you'll want to provide them with a tall cage with branch-like perches and extra humidity. If you're just looking for nasty disposition then you can just as easily go with a black rat or texas rat. You'll just have to ask around until you find someone who wants to sell a particularly vicious specimen. I've also heard that radiata, subradiata, quadrivirgata and carinata can all be ornery.

If the challenge you are looking for is a snake that is difficult to get to thrive then go with a moellendorfi. We won't even include wild-caught mandarins and moellendorfi. They're just the walking dead.

If you're looking for an alert but mellow ratsnake that's pretty good sized then go for a russian rat.

If you don't want to limit yourself to ratsnakes then the nastiest most nervous dispositions among colubrids are probably the racer and coachwhip type snakes (especially if you include the Ptyas species in this group). Of course most of the racers don't thrive in captivity.

For large size and impressive demeanor go with indigo and cribo species. And don't forget Pituophis. A large bull or pine snake is an impressive animal. And an angry hissing bullsnake can be pretty intimidating.

If you want to branch off into boids, then tree boas are very nervous and strike like crazy. As do most of the arboreal boids.

I like some of the smaller, more colorful, harder to find asian ratsnakes like the mandarins, porphyracea and conspicillata. But definitely to each his own.
Regards
John

No, I don't want an excessively nervous or bitey snake, though I will be okay if they bite a bit.

And I do want to stick with ratsnakes.

Though I have considered indigos as well. They are beautiful, I just don't think I can afford one from what I've heard.
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alstiver@hotmail.com

1.0 2001 Coral snow cornsnake
0.1 2002 Pastel Ghost poss Het Amelanistic cornsnake
1.1 2002 Bloodred cornsnakes
0.1 1998 Het Hypo, Het Caramel cornsnake
1.0 2000 Hypo Het Caramel cornsnake
0.0.13 2004 Eggs (potentially normals, hypos, caramels, and ambers)

Elaphe schrencki. They get pretty nice sized (5'-6') and hefty. They have a very interesting personality. They seem very alert and almost curious about their surroundings. They are diurnal so their fun in the daytime. The black and yellow color is kind of attractive. And they don't mind handling. They're not real expensive. Finally their not picky eaters.
Regards
John

A Russian Ratsnake is an excellent choice if you want something larger and that will not spend all of it's time hiding during the day.

If you want to deal with something a bit harder to handle so you can work your way up to Red-Tailed Ratsnakes et. al. then I'd say the Radiated Ratsnake.

Honestly, both are available and inexpensive right now so I'd even say both.

I know the guy from Lincoln, NE who is selling Russian's in the classifieds. He's a class act and I highly recommend him.

A Russian Ratsnake is a great suggestion. They are extremely hardy and docile yet are fairly uncommon in the pet trade so they are very interesting (if that is what you want).

All the other choices you listed in your initial post made me say "well....yes,...but...". A Russian Rat is the perfect solution to your search.
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Chris Harrison

assumption that Amanda's original request was for something more aggresive than a taiwan beauty. Knowing that taiwans are a fairly nervous ratsnake I thought she was looking for a really nervous or agressive snake as a handling challenge.

I myself don't particularly value those traits because they make working around these snakes slow and difficult. Also the more nervous individuals seem to take longer to settle into a good routine

But I do know that many keepers enjoy the thrill of handling agressive snakes. And I've always thought that an arboreal cage with Gonyosoma or Spilotes would be an incredibly cool display for my living room. But that will have to wait until some of my other projects are finished.
John

Bigger than corns,more active than corns,curious,and the most handable of all my snakes.My bairds is my most active snake period....Paul

np

I guess I'll just have to ponder all your info for awhile.

I would LOVE to get a Red-Tailed Green Ratsnake, but I definitely don't want to get a snake that will suffer if I can't care for it properly.

My guess, is I'll most likely end up with a Tiawan beauty for now, and slowly work my way up to harder species.

Wouldn't it be great if you could test run a particular snake for a few weeks to see if you liked it? Even if someone near me had any of these snakes that I could just hold to see how aggressive they get would be nice, rather than just going by another person's opinion, as this thread obviously shows how people can have differing views on "ease of handling."

Thanks again.
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alstiver@hotmail.com

1.0 2001 Coral snow cornsnake
0.1 2002 Pastel Ghost poss Het Amelanistic cornsnake
1.1 2002 Bloodred cornsnakes
0.1 1998 Het Hypo, Het Caramel cornsnake
1.0 2000 Hypo Het Caramel cornsnake
0.0.13 2004 Eggs (potentially normals, hypos, caramels, and ambers)