Hey, is this the right place for me to be asking questions about Smooth and Rough green snakes? I want to get one, are they a good first snake? I think I'm leaning towards to Smooth green one...anyone have one here?
J.L.
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Green snakes
herpheart13
Jul 21, 2004 05:00 PM
Replies (27)
rearfang
Jul 21, 2004 05:56 PM
Re-think it. Smooths are a lot harder to keep alive than Rough Greens.
Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."
herpheart13
Jul 21, 2004 07:03 PM
Oh, OK. How big of a cage do Rough greens need? Are they good beginners?
J.L.
HerperHelmz
Jul 21, 2004 07:10 PM
I think a rough green snake would be an ideal beginner snake, they can live their whole lives in 20 gallon tank, with alot of branches and leaves so they can blend in well. They eat crickets, grasshoppers, spiders, caterpillars. Most people would start with a python of something of that nature though. Or a corn snake.
Michael
Michael's Place
herpheart13
Jul 21, 2004 07:17 PM
REALLY?!?!? A 20 gallon tank? That's wonderful!!! It's just what I'm looking for!!!! 20 gallon tall or long?? Can anyone also provide some care sheets?? I can't find any ones that tell about captive care. I forgot if I asked this, but, are they an ideal first snake?? I want to get a good beginner one. Can they be handled??
J.L.
HerperHelmz
Jul 21, 2004 07:33 PM
20 gallon long. You ask way too many questions, I have a caresheet for rough and smooth green snakes on my website, Michael's Place, it is in the Queen Snake question, don't ask why, I haven't moved it yet.
Michael
Michael's Place
herpheart13
Jul 21, 2004 07:48 PM
OK, I'm sorry, just trying to learn the facts. Just a few last questions. = )
1. Can they be housed alone or do they need a partner?
2. Are they easier to keep than the Hognoses, cause I was gonna get one of those?
3. Why are the Roughs better than the Smooths?
4. Are they really rough, too rough to hold?
5. And, last, can anyone post some pics of ideal cage setups?
Thanks, sorry to be a burden!!!
J.L.
HerperHelmz
Jul 21, 2004 07:55 PM
1. they don't need a partner
2. they are easier to keep
3. I don't remember
4. they are called rough green snakes because their scales are rough
5. I'm gonna give you a no on #5, but somebody may have a pic or two
Michael
Michael's Place
herpheart13
Jul 21, 2004 08:00 PM
Quick and to the point! Thanks!!!!
J.L.
rearfang
Jul 22, 2004 02:43 PM
#3. Smooth greens are small (to 20"
and more delicate. They seem more inclined to feed on soft bodied prey like worms (from some people who have kept them. In a recent thread most who did work with these indicated that they did not succeeed for long periods with smooths).
Rough greens have KEELED SCALES.
I have kept many R. Greens successfully (as adults) in a ten gallon aquaria. Use lots of twigs for climbing. Spagnum makes for a great bottom medium. Mist daily.
R. Greens can be kept alive and well for years on crickets.
Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."
herpheart13
Jul 22, 2004 03:13 PM
Is spagnum all you use for substrate?? What kind of lighting do they need?? And, how big of a water bowl should I put in there??
Thanks!!!
J.L.
HerperHelmz
Jul 22, 2004 03:35 PM
lol, lots of Q's coming from you these days. If I recall, there is a book out there somewhere that covers ALL of the basics of keeping green snakes, brown snakes, and ringneck snakes. I came across the book in a pet store about 3 months, I would've gotten it, but I felt the book was inaccurate with the info about ringnecks and browns. It costs about 7 bucks.
*Is spagnum all you use for substrate??__JUST use spagnum, Frank knows what he is talking about.
*What kind of lighting do they need??__They are not like turtles, they don't need any special lights or anything, a regular aquarium light will work, just don't place the tank in direct sunlight.
*And, how big of a water bowl should I put in there??__If you use a 10 gal. tank, the waterbowl couldn't be that big. I suggest(if you use a 20 gal. long)to have a large shallow waterbowl that covers half of the tank floor.
Michael
Michael's Place
herpheart13
Jul 22, 2004 03:41 PM
So, just spagnum, that's all, no bark or dirt or gravel under it? And, no basking light or UVB????
J.L.
rearfang
Jul 22, 2004 03:47 PM
Light isn't all that necessary (like Mike said) but I would suggest that you use a full spectrum Fluorescent if you did. Water bowls would be small. That's why you are misting the snake (they get most of their water off leaves and their own body).
Oh...Don't use Tap water unless you can treat it to remove chlorine and other chemicals. Think of it like you are setting up an aquarium. This holds true for all reptiles and amphibs.
Finally...Some R. Greens come out of the wild with a fungal infection. If your planned snake is showing pretty blue or black spots in large numbers...don't buy it.
Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."
rearfang
Jul 22, 2004 03:49 PM
Dirt and such is unneccessary and may actually contribute unwanted bacteria and parricites to your tank. besides, R. Greens are arboreal. Most of the time it will be in the branches.
Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."
herpheart13
Jul 22, 2004 04:32 PM
So, just a floresent bulb. OK, that's easy. What should their feeding schedule be? Like, how many of what a day/week? And, do you know any GOOD breeders I could buy one from?
J.L.
dookie28
Jul 22, 2004 04:06 PM
My experience with them was bad. They were one of the first snakes I ever tried to keep. I could never get them to eat, and they would develop this skin thing. Ive never tried since then to keep any. I had much better luck with corns, kings, garters, and rats. They were all good starter snakes. They are hardy, well tempered, and easy to handle. Of coarse as with any animal, find out as much as you can of that species before you decide on which you will get.
herpheart13
Jul 22, 2004 04:30 PM
Yeah, I like garters, but I've heard they eat pinkies, and I REALLY don't want to feed a snake anything but an insect or a fish. Plus, these guys are small.
J.L.
HerperHelmz
Jul 22, 2004 05:23 PM
Yeah most garters will eat pinkies and grown mice, that's actually better than an insect and worm diet.
Michael
Michael's Place
rearfang
Jul 22, 2004 08:30 PM
Eastern Garters will do just fine on a fish diet. However, Aside from that last post about a bad experience...I have caught dozens upon dozens of greens and the only one I ever lost had the fungal disease I refered to. They really are the best beginner snake if you don't want a mouse eater.
$10-$20 is really a fair price for a mature specimen.
Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."
HerperHelmz
Jul 22, 2004 08:49 PM
I could've sworn that it would've ended after I answered the first 12 questions about rough green snakes.
Michael
Michael's Place
snake_bit
Jul 22, 2004 02:08 PM
From Snakes of the US & Canada - Rossi & Rossi
They are ferocious hunters of insects & spiders in the wild & once the adapt to captivity will happily feed on grasshopper, crickets, moths & catepillars. The easiest way to obtain these insects is to sweep them up from around an outdoor light at night.
All insects, but especially crickets s/b dusted with calcium powder (e.g. Reptical). Avoid meal worms - the hard exoskeleton may cause in the intestinal tract.
Cage accesssories: A dark hide box is important, Branches (not dense enough for food to hide), artificial carpet, newspaper, or wood chips as substrate.
Mist cage every other day. Some specimens refuse to drink from a water bowl. Cage s/b well ventilated.
Vitalite or UV light recommended.
Older literature mentions that lizards frog & pinkies may be eaten.
They are excellent escape artists.
They've been known to contain internal parasites, including flagellates & several species of coccidia.
Snake mites & chiggers have been observed on this species.
May be slow to start feeding, but once it starts, watch out.
They may eat anywhere from 10 to 100 insects per month.
Inexpensive reading: Basic Care of Rough Green Snakes - Philippe de Vosjoli ($6.00?)
herpheart13
Jul 23, 2004 06:45 PM
I still just don't get this one thing: is their skin really rough? I mean, is it too rough that you can't hold them? I would like to be able to hold mine.
J.L.
Justin Stricklin
Jul 23, 2004 06:55 PM
there is no snake to rough to hold. It just has raised up scales much like water snakes or garters if you have ever messe with them. See, a smooth green snake feels like a skink, while a rough feels more like a..... fence lizard maybe. Not quite that rough. It feels like a bunch of small rocks on it that is raised up I guess you could say. Some have attitudes, but they do not hurt when they bite. It feels like sand paper, the bite does. Why do you not want to feed rodents? If you could just feed it rodents you could just go for a king or corn or something. Naw, the best biginner snake in my opinion is a ball python. But it seems you have your mind set. Greens can be rather difficult if you do not have evrything perfect and a variety of prey. I have read many tiems that fed just crickets they do not get all they need. If you can enable yourself to feed mice, e-mail me and I will give you all the info you need on balls (pythons). My first was a ball and it is still alive today.
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Justin
herpheart13
Jul 23, 2004 08:51 PM
Yeah, I've caught skinks and fence lizards before, actually I caught both of those in one day. I know I'm such a baby about the whole rodent thing, but I've owned rats, mice, and bunnies before, and, I don't know, I'd would just seem kinda weird to me. I don't mind feeding bugs to my critters, I do that every week. I have many other herps (I'll list them below). So, you can see the snake thing is new to me.
J.L.
1 Spring Peeper
2 Green Tree Frogs
1 Gray Tree Frog
1 Squirrel Tree Frog
1 Tiger Leg Monkey Tree Frog
1 White's Tree Frog
2 Fire Belly Toads
4 African Dwarf Clawed Frogs
3 RES
1 River Cooter
1 Mississippi Map turtle
1 Common Musk
1 Three Striped Mud
And a bunch of fish....
Justin Stricklin
Jul 23, 2004 09:23 PM
If it is the killing them thing, you can most likely go to a local herp show. There is one in just about all the states. not every single one though. If you find one that is driving distance you can get contact info from one of the people that helps run the show of a rodent breeder that is there every month. You can buy a bunch of them frozen. You should never feed a live mouse to a snake unless it does not take f/t. If you order a BP from a place that guarantees feeding on f/t like lllreptile that would be great. You could start a baby on hopper mice and up. You can get some 03s that are on adult mice. You will probably see some baby balls for sale at the show. I saw a guy at my local show that had 2000. they were farmed though. lllreptile or proexotics usualy have good ones for sale. They cost more than farmed but they are better snakes and allt hard work of switching to f/t has already been done. The reason i say BP is that they are easy to keep, they a small, very slow and do not bite most of the time. DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER a w/c adult. or even w/c babies for that matter. They are cheaper and thye do not eat in captivity. Ball pythons that are captive born have great appitites. If you can get over feedign it mice it would be a great starter. If you think you would consider I will go into it more thorougly.
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Justin
herpheart13
Jul 23, 2004 09:29 PM
Wait, aren't BPs the ones that grow up to eat rabbits or is that something else?
J.L.
Justin Stricklin
Jul 23, 2004 10:29 PM
Ball pythons (BP) only get 3-4 feet long. femaels bigger than males. They eat medium rats at the most. They can do just fine with adult mice for as long as they live. A baby maybe started on rat pups or fuzzy-hopper mice while adults eat anything larger. Burmese pythons ( burms ) are the rabbit eaters. I think that is where you got confused. reticulated pythons ( retics ) also eat rabbits. Pythons over 7' can eat rabbits. Ball pythons ( balls or BP ) average only 3-4 feet with 5 being rare. I have never seen a 5 foot ball. I have had a male for about 4-5 years and he is only like 3 feet. I have another one that someone else had previously and he took wonderful care of it an it is 42" that is the largest I have ever seen. It is 6 years old. Go to something like proexotics.com I think they have a care sheet on them. I feed mine small- medium rats and any sized adult mouse if I have leftovers. Balls are so popular and all now so it will not be hard at all to find a caesheet. Just look around on kingsnake.
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Justin
