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novice questions, legality, toxicity

Sonya Jul 21, 2004 05:08 PM

Okay, have other herps. My son is into amphibians (has sals, RETF, pyxies) and I am thinking won't make it much longer without some arrow frogs. He is VERY responsible and intuitive and well supervised(and does NOT want something to hold), so don't think kid here(he is 12), think beginner though. What are good beginner frogs? What is your best advice to an enthusiastic beginner?
On an aside I had someone call my work and tell me that pdfs are highly toxic and illegal in NY. I think it was a competing and new pet store that is 'testing' and annoying. Is there such a thing as deadly captive arrow frogs? What is the jist of toxics etc? I got the impression that some of it is prey related and not an issue with CB. Even just aiming me at a good site would be greatly appreciated. My server (dial up) is slow lately and dragging through sites to find good ones is getting frustrating.
TIA
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Sonya

Haven't we warned you about tampering with the structure of a chaotic system?
Mrs. Neutron

Replies (5)

mollyskali Jul 21, 2004 08:16 PM

By your description of your son, he sounds responsible enough to own some PDFs. The toxicity is prey related and in captivity most carry no toxins (except the Terribilis). They are not frogs to hold even though they are not "toxic". They are very fragile and stress very easily. As good beginner frogs I would say that Dendrobates Leucomelas (bumblebee poison dart) and Dendrobates Auratus. They are easier to care for than others and are a lot less expensive. Once your son cuts his teeth on these then he can move up to more complicated species. Mkae sure you do your research. Knowledge prevents disaster. Check the Saurian website as well as the Black Jungle website. They will help with basic care and pictures of certain types of frogs.
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"Fill your bowl to the brim and it will spill. Keep sharpening your knife and it will blunt. Chase after money and security and your heart will never unclench. Care about people's approval and you will be their prisoner. Do your work, then step back. The only path to serenity." - Lau-tzu - Tao Te Ching

slaytonp Jul 22, 2004 11:18 AM

Phyllobates terribilis are actually a great beginner frog because they are so hardy and bold. Even as froglets, they are always in the open. The retention of toxins in captive bred specimens is a new one on me, so I'd check further with the breeder about this. I don't handle mine with my hands anyway. Many of the frogs and especially toads in the pet trade have skin toxins which they retain in captivity.

My P. terribilis are the so-called mint green form, which is more of a pearly "seafoam" green--very pretty. The D. leucomelas are also bold and get along great in groups, as do the P. terribilis and D. galactonotus.

Although my purchasing experience is limited to Saurian and Black Jungle (both excellent sources), there are others such as Quality Captives, Pumilio.com, etc. that also have good reputations.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis (new froglets)

mollyskali Jul 22, 2004 10:27 PM

Upon further research, I found Terribilis does not retain it's toxicity. I had been told in the past that they do retain toxins and have found websites that still make this claim, however the overwhelming majority of the available material debunks this claim. My error.
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"Fill your bowl to the brim and it will spill. Keep sharpening your knife and it will blunt. Chase after money and security and your heart will never unclench. Care about people's approval and you will be their prisoner. Do your work, then step back. The only path to serenity." - Lau-tzu - Tao Te Ching

slaytonp Jul 23, 2004 03:59 AM

I think the doubt about P. terribilis captive toxicity came from the otherwise lovely picture book JEWELS OF THE RAINFOREST, which is a bit outdated and was rightly cautious about the information given, which stated that it was unknown whether they lost their toxins in captivity. It was unknown at the time this was written. While I wouldn't swallow one of mine to prove their safety, I would still recommend them to a beginner boy as a terrific personality frog , not the least bit shy. The froglets are eating, hunting machines. The adults get along in groups. Leucs are great, too, as are the galacs. Thumbnails like D. imitator are sometimes bold, and depending upon the male/female mix and other factors, they can put on quite a show.
But they are not the best to start out with. My own aruatus are pathologically shy, and I've had them for several years. I seldom see them without invading their cover to make sure they are still there and alive. I have the blue morph though, and understand the other auratus morphs aren't as paranoid. I even named one "Larry" after Garrison Keelor's skit about the brother Larry who had lived in the cellar for 15 years before anyone noticed he was gone. I never see Larry except when I go on a thorough search through the vivarium about once every two months just to see if he is really still there. He is. He must eat, but in two years, I've never seen him do it. He still istn't skinny or malnourished. He spends his entire life hiding under things. If one could define a mentally retarded, pathologically shy frog, Larry would be it. Mentally retarded assues the thing that is mentally retarded has a mentality to begin with. This doesn't fit Larry. He's a frog, and frogs don't exactly discuss the big bang, quarks and strings with each other. Their grammar is poor.

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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis (new froglets)

Sonya Jul 25, 2004 09:42 AM

He is very responsible and that is why I am even considering it. He has had a RETF for 3yrs (since it was tiny) and thriving. He loves the Auratus and terriblis so it is good to know they are good possible starters. (fav color is green) We will do some printing of info and go from there. Thanks again.
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Sonya

Haven't we warned you about tampering with the structure of a chaotic system?
Mrs. Neutron

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