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A quick thought

herpin1579 Jul 22, 2004 10:54 PM

Hi everyone,

I myself am very fond of birds of prey. I am interested/involved in the sport of falconry. I order to practice the sport, I must serve a 2yr apprenticeship under a general or master class falconer and complete a federal exam relating to the history, anatomy, habits, and husbandry of these birds. I was thinking that maybe this system could be incorporated into the keeping of venomous reptiles. Any thoughts?

Mike
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I have:
0.1 Kankakee Bulls
0.1 corns
0.1 az king
0.1 3-toe box turtle
1.0 Bearded Dragon (german giant)
0.1 Bearded Dragon (orange)
1.2 Bearded Dragon (red sandfire X yellow pastel/red sandfire)
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon (Citrus X yellow pastel)

Replies (8)

LarryF Jul 23, 2004 01:38 PM

While I'm all in favor of education, most of us aren't planning on releasing out forest cobras in the back yard and waiting for them to come back... I assume thats the justification for those rules...however I also suspect the real reason has more to do with tradition (and wealthy falconers not wanting thier hobby to become too pedestrian) than with safety.

rearfang Jul 24, 2004 11:56 AM

Having worked with raptors and with snakes as well, I can agree that some kind of apprenticeship should be inplace for potential venomous keepers. In Florida we have the rudiments of such a system, but it needs work.

The real difference between the two, has to do with the scarcity of Raptor species in captivity and their notorious delicacy. Such limitations do not exist for the majority of available herp species.

The real danger to this line of thought is that parties opposed to keeping venomous herps may influence the law makers into making criteria so difficult or expensive that only the rich or Zoo affiliates will be able to afford to participate in this hobby.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

amadeus Jul 26, 2004 09:18 AM

Please keep in mind that I am NOT a hot keeper, but I have read many of the posts here, and see that most of you are very responsible owners with a true love of the animals you keep. With that in mind, may I offer an opinion?

I understand that this could be viewed as just another threat to your hobby, and that there is a pervasive fear that eventually, this hobby will be illegal, thanks mostly to a very ignorant public and a few keepers that have no business having hots and end up on the front page of the newspaper thanks to their irresponsibility. However, might there be some sort of middle ground here? Some education and training should very well be in order I would think, before obtaining a hot. Many of you have gotten hands on training for years before obtaining your animal. Some have not, and those are the ones giving the hobby a bad name and unfortunately, most of the publicity. Some type of educational program would most certainly weed out some of the morons who think having a hot is nothing more than bragging rights, and might very well lead to a more open minded approach to the hobby from the public. Should there be a fee associated with this? Well, if its state mandated with a state certification, I would think so. Someone has to pay for the educators' time, etc.

For example, if you want to hunt, you pay a fee for a license. That license fee covers the cost of hunter education courses, etc. as well as game management expenses such as salaries for wildlife officers, etc. The fee is minimal. Why not apply something along those lines to the keeping of hots? Just an opinion, I would very much like to hear some feedback.

Greg Longhurst Jul 26, 2004 05:35 PM

I was involved with the state of Florida's hunter education program for several years. The vast majority of the classes are taught by volunteer instructors. No gas money..nothing for the time..but must go through a fairly rigorous training prior to becoming an instructor. BTW, I did not leave due to lack of payment, but to the fact that a wildlife officer insisted that my snakes be bagged as well as in a lock box during transport.
Half my bites have been incurred by bagged snakes (1 of 2). I tried to get the support of the Game Commission employees involved with the hunter ed program to talk the badge-heavy officer into backing off. They would not, he would not..I left.
I know what the law says about transporting snakes, including to free demonstrations. I also know the risk involved in bagging & unbagging snakes & that a bagged snake can still bite.
I chose not to put myself at unwarranted risk.

The link is the program I was giving the state.

~~Greg~~
Florida's Venomous Snakes

Carmichael Jul 26, 2004 09:51 PM

I have discussed your very idea on many forums throughout the years. Most folks are closed minded to the idea, however, the sport of falconry is a fabulous idea of how a group of dedicated people banned together and became proactive in changing laws before the laws changed their hobby (and passion). they worked closely with state and federal agencies in developing very stringent procedures in becoming a falconer. The process is not based solely out of tradition but rather a means in which the "oh wow that would be really cool to do" crowds are weeded out quickly. Keeping raptors (like I do along with venmous and non venomous herps) is a privelege. I would like nothing more than a similar protocol adopted by the herp community....but you know what?...the herp community is not smart enough to figure out what is best for themselves. They have a laissez faire attitude and just assume that some "power to be" will protect their rights to own herps...NOT!! You can see a nationwide trend to ban herps and until we get our acts together, it will only get worse. The falconry community, despite many strict local and community ordinances prohibiting the keeping of "wild" animals, have been able to prevail because this group was united and became PROACTIVE in working with the local, state and federal agencies. People can rebut my remarks all they want but the proof is in the pudding...and right now, it doesn't taste too good!

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

herpin1579 Jul 27, 2004 10:04 PM

Hey,

I see you live in Illinois. I live in Downers Grove. I was going to start my apprenticeship next fall but I have decided to wait until after college. Do you have any volunteer work? Also, I may have several bobwhite quail that I'm sure you raptors would more than appreciate.

Mike
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I have:
0.1 Kankakee Bulls
0.1 corns
0.1 az king
0.1 3-toe box turtle
1.0 Bearded Dragon (german giant)
0.1 Bearded Dragon (orange)
1.2 Bearded Dragon (red sandfire X yellow pastel/red sandfire)
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon (Citrus X yellow pastel)

Carmichael Jul 28, 2004 09:12 PM

Yes, we are in IL; about 45-60 minutes northeast from you (Lake Forest, IL). If you are interested in seeing our set up, drop me an email and we can make arrangements. Rob

bachman Jul 26, 2004 11:13 PM

It's a very good idea, but the general public has different feelings towards venomous reptiles than they do birds, and if they would incorperate something like this I would be very suprised. Great idea though.
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CB

"I'm a truckin bassmole, and proud of it"

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