Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We have a newly aquirred 8" youngster-we've been tossing japanese beetles into his cage-he greedily devours them,as well as small katydids--I'm aware of the pesticide risk and the toxicity of fireflies,ants, etc.- hoping I'm doing the right thing-the lizard appears to be fine and healthy.

I don't think this is a good idea. Besides all the risks you know of, do you even know if those a nutritionally good for him? Why not just stick to gutloaded crickets?
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Amanda
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2.0 bearded dragons (Ocho / Domo-kun)

0.1 kingsnake (Rio)
0.0.1 tarantula (Otto)
1.0 ferret (Playstation)
1.0 cat (Wally)
0.1 dog (Tima)

after looking at some pictures it appears these beetles have hard shells that could easily impact a dragon that size. Be careful.
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Amanda
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2.0 bearded dragons (Ocho / Domo-kun)

0.1 kingsnake (Rio)
0.0.1 tarantula (Otto)
1.0 ferret (Playstation)
1.0 cat (Wally)
0.1 dog (Tima)

I'd take a step back if I were you. It seems as though you don't realize how quick and easily you can cause major problems with your beardie.

The worst thing you can do is try something new you don't know about then ask questions as to whether it's okay or not. Maybe next time you won't need to ask if something's okay because you get your answer the hard way and your beardie's dead.

I'm not trying to attack you here but next time you may want to think seriously about first asking if something's okay then making your decision based on the answers you get.

Have fun with your beardie! They rock!!
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Rob Talkington

Yeah, this sounds very dangerous, and if you wait to see signs of trouble, it could be too late. A dragon that size should not even be eating full grown crickets much less beetles and catydids. You are lucky you don't already have a paralyzed dragon. Feeding prey with hard shells can cause impaction. When the dragon gets impacted the pressure on the spinal cord will cause the back legs to become paralysed! At the point you see him dragging his legs it will be too late to fix the problem.

Check out my caresheet:
Care Sheet

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-stepping back--didn't have the cricket thing in order yet-fwiw,this guy ate these beetles, along with pet store crickets and a couple of grasshopper types from the yard for a week-not only didn't he get sick and die, but he has become robust and tame - a stroke of very good luck, maybe--it was nice to think that one could put japanese beetles to good use--sorry to offend anybody's sensibilities--

Feeding wild-caught insects is fine in most cases. In fact, offering beardies a variety of insects is better than having them subsist on crickets only. Some of the regulars on this board can go overboard. We have posts about beardies eating bees and being fine, but if Joe gives his a dragon a beetle you're all screaming its going to die. In the wild, young bearded dragons eat just about any insect that they can find.

Also in the wild, only 1 or 2 in a given clutch would make it to adulthood, if that... Not just from diet but you get the point.

Just something to keep in mind when comparing captive to wild.
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Joel R

Coming Soon!
www.SpikesAndScales.com

You make a good point, but the majority die because of predators, not their prey. Anyway, if you read any number of dragon manuals and reptile magazines, feeding wild caught insects is fine (so long as they are free from chemicals). In many cases its better for them, those wild caught insects come gut-loaded with nutrients that are less likely to be in captive breed crickets.

For the record, I'm not saying to experiment on your dragons for experiment's sake, but many people on this board frown on anything that is not completely cut/dry and completely by the book. Yet at the same time, you have some breeders on here that do some unothordox things (like letting their dragons swim in their pool). No insult meant to Bennett (I think for the most part he gives excellent advice and has beautiful dragons to boot).

Even most of the books very greatly to straight up contradicting. lol That's the problem, in most cases, there is no cut & dry. It "almost" always boils down to opinion. What works for one, doesn't always work for another. Way too many factors.

I'm not downing your original post,, Just showing the other side. There are ups & downs for most captive care issues. There is no way everyone will agree on most things we do for these guys & that's not going to change.
That is what makes this forum so great. People can take others advice, (as conflicting as it may be, or seem) and try to make it work for them. Eventually, or at least hopefully, they will figure out what works for them & their dragons. Most likely by mix matching advice. lol

I will straight up tell you, some things I do, I have been advised against. But what works here, can stay here, until it doesn't. I will say though,, the animals interests have to be kept first.
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Joel R

Coming Soon!
www.SpikesAndScales.com

I guess when I see a new beardie owner try something new then ask if it's okay I tend to think they don't understand how easy it is to cause major problems for their beardie. I want to make sure this person does understand how easy it is to cause problems because chances are it's a general attitude, not just about feeding wild insects.

JoeBloe, welcome to the forum and to beardie ownership!
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Rob Talkington

Cheri had shared some info that came from a study in Australia,

The favorite basking spot was paved roads, in the wild.

I don't think it would be wise to mimic that practice. lol

I know it's a far off topic from the bug issue but it's there.

Also it would be wise to warn of a potential parasite risk by feeding wild insects.
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Joel R

Coming Soon!
www.SpikesAndScales.com

Not to mention the risk of pesticide ingestion....we live in a pesticide happy society to keep bugs from coming in our yards and homes, even if you don't spray, your neighbors probably do....

And again, wild to captive is not comparable for many reasons....the biggest difference in my mind is that the captive ones are pets and we are to protect them in their captive environments as best we can....I agree with the first comments, ask before doing, why ask later? what purpose does that serve?

Probably small bettles and katydids, if totally free from pesticides are ok in moderation, but I do agree with the hard shells they are a greatly risk for impaction especially in young dragons......

Also, it's not about offending any sensibilities, you came here for opinions and you got them, whether you like them or not, it's what you asked for.....and yes to answer Tazok, some of us are more passioniate about dragons than others, but they are doing it for the beardies sake, not their own, so maybe that should be kept in mind when someone thinks anothers line is too strong in favor of accepted practice.
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Tracey
Tracey's Beardies
www.beardiecrazy.com
"Whining is not only graceless, but can be dangerous.
It can alert a brute that a victim is in the neighborhood" ~Maya Angelou

geez!-some thread I started- I've asked about the beetle thing after the fact because I thought it's better than not asking at all- catching beetles and using them as dragon prey seemed better and more environmentally sound than exterminating them(the beetles)
by conventional means-I apologized for offending particular posters that seemed mildly outraged-it's about keeping the peace-no harm to any living thing( except those damned japanese beetles!!)is implied or intended-thanks to all for responding.....joe

n/p
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Tracey
Tracey's Beardies
www.beardiecrazy.com
"Whining is not only graceless, but can be dangerous.
It can alert a brute that a victim is in the neighborhood" ~Maya Angelou

I feed grasshopers, katydids and june bugs all the time and have for a year ( weather permiting) to each his own.
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I agree there are a LOT of things that are not cut and dry in the reptile world, but this definatly isn't one of them. I worked as a vet tech through college, and I still work closely with our local reptile vet because Of the reptile rescue I am involved in.

I would say that not a single week goes by that a reptile did not come in for impaction problems due to things like beetles, super worms, grasshoppers, and substrate. Call your vet if you need to see proof, ask how many surgies he has done on impactions. Why use foods that risk impaction when there are lots of good choices that don't risk it. You CAN give variety without using dangerous insects, so why would you? Again, this is not a "maybe its bad" thing. Just ask the vet, dragons do die from this. The opinion is only whether you want to risk it or not. Yeah, your dragon may never have any problems, but you are aleays taking a risk. If you want to see what you are risking having your pet go through here:http://www.lbah.com/Reptile/fecalith.htm
This is a snake, but actually the surgery is the same.

But even you guys who feed these things to adult dragons (much less risky) must have noticed this guy is talking about a tiny 8 inch dragon, that is a 6-7 week old baby. This is the time they are most at risk for impaction.

And wild bugs have all kinds of parasites in them. A tiny baby would not due well with worms or other parasites. And all bugs running around the US carry pesticides these days, even in the country. That can build up really quickly in a baby. Even if you don't use them, the bugs around your house have pesticieds in them. Your dragon is also a captive bred, and when its ancestors were wild they were from Australia. Your dragons immune system is not prepared for the bacteria that lives in say Utah. Wild caught bugs are full of bacteria that your dragon's immune system is not specialized to deal with (as the wild dragons have a somewhat communal releationship with the native bacteria).

This does not upset me... I do worry for the dragon, but I wouldn't say I am upset over it. I don't get any kind of payment for telling what I have seen happen to dragons over the years a the vet. Its just the way things are, you asked, I told. If you don't want to listen because you somehow think I benefit from you not feeding beetles and grasshoppers, then you are nuts. I do not own any stock in CricketsRUs. I do care about the health of animals, thats ALL.
Some of this is opinions, some of it is fact. take what you want of it.
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ok....