Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was reading a post from a yesterday from zoogirl that had some ideas about regulation of temps. with kings. This is a bit long but it's something to discuss.

My opinion, of course, is for those of us who live in an area where our snakes live or an area with very similar temps./humidity/light cycle, etc as their native habibat.

I go with ambient heat that mimics the snakes natural rhythms as much as possible and I'll use an example why; again, I live in south-central Mississippi so all of my king ssp./intergrades except for my brooksi share a similar climate in the wild.

I use to use heat for all my snakes, even when I lived in south Florida...big mistake and I don't use artificial heat now unless I need it for an ill snake or to spike the temps. in case it gets too cold. I lost one Eastern when living in West Palm, had one that took 3 months to heal, and another that was on the brink of death for 2 weeks; and I didn't own them all at the same time nor did they share cages - but what they did share was a respiratory infection. In fact, all of my 12 snakes (floridana, "goini", getula getula and a midwestern bull snake) had to be monitored ALL the time and were cleary not comfortable in south Florida - unless you have bokoo dollars you're not going to outdo nature.

It's no surprise that the two snakes I had that not only did well, but just thrived in that area in captivity (West Palm) were my two brooksi - both caught and raised nearby!

So, here in Jackson, MS I let the temp. in my snake room rise and drop naturally to around 82 or so during the day to 70 or so at night and let my kings adjust like they would in the wild. I just make sure they have fresh, cool water and hide boxes and let the snake do the rest. Of course sometimes you have to add heat or cool a room off by blasting the AC - it's still not nature in your house - but most of the time once you get it set up right it works.

So I go with what jones said in that post...if you can mimic the snakes natural temp. flucuation in the wild more or less that's the best route to go take. After taking all my snakes off heat for almost a year now I've had no problems with respiritory infections or other too much/not enough heat health problems. And my snakes are still active and digest their food normally; they've all adjusted to a natural light cycle too which makes caring for them more predictable.

JMO,

-John

Is that in a tank, even using natural temperatures, humidity, etc., you can't perfectly mimic the natural environment.

Regardless of how warm it gets outside, a wild snake can retreat underground to cool off. The earth is so massive that it's always cooler underground. In a small tank (I mean small as in, not the earth), everything will reach the ambient temperature within an hour of a change. Not to mention that dirt/swampland is moist, more dense, etc., all of which promote cooler temperatures.

If you give no temperature gradient and use just outside temperature, it's not simulating the environment; it's the equivalent of leaving a snake outside, above ground, constantly. In Mississippi, the temps outside are probably mild enough to do this, but with no localized artificial heat, you rob them of a gradient that is always present in nature.

that reminds me of the problems ive been having. living in miami, the tanks are going to be very warm naturally. for my king, i guess because of where in particular i keep his cage and knowing that he's particularly sensitive to high heat, if i turn on the heat pad one end of the tank is guaranteed to be 95. but if i dont, of course there's no temp gradient for him to choose from. not such a problem at night, as my roommate turns the a/c up so he can still bundle up when i get up in the morning most of my tanks have dropped to 70 even with the UTHs on.
anybody got any advice on how to maintain the gradient without making an already-warm enviornment too hot?

OK, if you live in Miami you know what I'm talking about then!

If you can't find a room where the air temp. can be maintained around 75 degrees or so then I'd put about 3" of a heating pad on low heat under one end of the cage (if it's 24" long for example) and make sure there's a hide box on both ends with the water bowl on the cool end. If there's proper circulation of air then the snake will take care of the rest...

Me, I have a "snake" room where I maintain it at around 75-77 degrees by keeping the door shut, the AC on and crack the windows to allow for some cool air to escape - that way I live comfortably and the snakes do as well. I simply adjust the windows to regulate it. Also, sunlight comes in in the AM and they come out to soak it up. So my snakes are on natural time with the sun and they "like" it much better that way.

Remember that a snake creates its own heat in that it gives off energy, i.e. heat, as it breathes, etc. So if it's 75 degrees in your room and you have a hide box on one end the snake can get it up to 80-82 degrees without much difficulty if it has proper shelter and some substrate to modify the temps (like aspen).

-John

Actually I'm not robbing them of anything.

If you read my message carefully you'll see that I mentioned 2 hide boxes and fresh, clean water. The temp is never the same in two places in a appropriate sized tank/cage; it's all in how you set it up. I also said it applies to people who LIVE in this type of climate.

And it's not naturally AT ALL to provide them with a constant temp on both ends - where in nature does a constant thermal gradient exist?! It doesn't. I've been a field biologist for 12 years and that's not how things work - you're greatly simplifying nature by assumming that. How about a snake breathing and regulating its own hidebox? That's what they do whether you have heat on them or not (coil out, tighten up, stretch out, etc.) - it's called microhabitat and that's what many snakes use in nature.

The very fact that a snake CAN adjust to its microclimate in the cage is why I do it.

Moreover, a number of breeders who live in Florida never use artificial heat unless they're breeding, etc... They go with ambient heat. Live and keep 15 plus snakes in an area where it's in the 90s for months on end and try and use heat - it's very tricky even in a climate controlled home (unless you're loaded and can afford something really nice).

-John