Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I recently had my two geckos, a leopard and crested, out together, just walking around on the coffee table. the leopard took interest in the crested, licked her eye a few times, and then lost interest. I put some mealworms out, my leopard went into "feeding mode", ate quite a few, then proceeded to take interest in the crested's foot, followed by biting it. Think she may be traumatised? I had to grab up the leopard to make him let go. I think this may have been provoked by the food however, because my leopard gets very very excited when food is around, whereas my crested is a bit more reserved, less interested in food (though by herself in her cage, at night, she is very eager for food.) Basically, is it safe and/or smart to allow them to interact? My motivation in the first place was thinking it would give the little guys something to think about for a change, a connection to another of the same kind, since both are alone in their cages. Any feedback would be quite welcome. Thanks alot.
~Ethan
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Not quite sure how that numerical system works for how many herps you've got, I'm guessing it's for male/female. Bu then somtimes there is a third...hmmm... At any rate, I'm sort of small time compared to some of you:
1 leopard
1 crested

I think it was a very bad ideal. I suggest not putting them together again.

i agree. it might sound like a cool idea at first, but these are two totally different geckos. there realy isnt anything for them to 'think' about, besides feeding, mating, and territoriality. and of course, males have greater tendency to be territorial. perhaps they could tolerate each other, then offering the food triggered a reaction to competition. overall, its not a good idea to have different species with/around one another. what would have happened if your leo decided not to release your crestie's foot? that would have answered your question right there.

Thank you all for your insight. I realize now that it is not a good idea to mix species. I was not, however, hosting a cock fight of sorts, as some make it seem. I had no intentions of letting either gecko get hurt, as I had no knowledge of what would happen. Whats done is done, no harm. I think these critters are less fragile than commonly believed. I was not doing it to be "cool", god forbid, you give me a call the day it becomes popularly recognized in society that doing anything affilliated with reptiles is cool, because I will celebrate. I had no idea what would happen if I mixed the two, so I feel no remorse, nor do I have any regrets at all, for I have learned first hand that it doesn't usually work. Freebird. Keep it real.
~Ethan
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Not quite sure how that numerical system works for how many herps you've got, I'm guessing it's for male/female. Bu then somtimes there is a third...hmmm... At any rate, I'm sort of small time compared to some of you:
1 leopard
1 crested

I don't mean to be contradictory in any way and I agree that if you observed a negative interaction between your two geckos it might not be a good idea to house them together. However, I do have three very large naturalistic terrariums that I made and in each one there are several crested geckos and leopard geckos as well as millipeds for cleanup duty a few different kinds of tree frogs two gargoyle geckos and some madagascan hissing roaches that breed like crazy and supply a constant supply of small roach snacks. The setups are tall and there is kind of a canopy that the aboreal species tend to hang out in but the cresteds will come down and mingle with the leopards with no ill effects that I've observed. I know this is probably a controversial approach but I've never withnessed any aggression between species and I've never had a crested or a leopard even lose a tail. Now there could be a few factors that allow for this kind of housing. First it might just be that I have mild tempered geckos. They're all different and believe me I've had a few nasty ones. Also, there is a lot of space and hiding places and there's several "warm spots" provided by undertank heating pads so there's no need to compete for a place to hang out. There's no need to compete for food either, I have a bowl of mealworms that's always full so there isn't really a "feeding mode" that the leopards get into. They just kind of saunter over and grab a bite whenever they're hungry. I also breed crickets, orange headed roaches, hissing roaches, wax worms and mealworms and feed pretty liberally. If anything doesn't get eaten up, they usually fall prey to the carnivorous pitcher plants and there isn't much mess. I feed the crested their baby food and fruits etc. on a platform in the canopy.
Anyways, I just thought I'd throw it out there that I house multiple species, mainly crested and leopards together successfully so it can be done. However, I do advise being very careful and watchful if you wanted to try this at first. I would hate to see your crested get it's hand chomped. And housing seperately is fine for the geckos. I don't think they get lonely. My setup is more for my enjoyment. Just thought I'd throw it out there.
jason

there is no way you can have an appropiate climate for leos and cresteds together in one setup, well ok perhaps if it has half a room size ....
if you want to mix different sepcies, then at least animals that live close together in nature, and need the same climate.

if your milipedes breed, it might happen, that geckos eat the small ones and die from it. thats what happened to a friend of mine.

yea, i forgot to mention something about that. ever noticed the weird smell of millipedes when you aggravate them? im pretty sure they produce cyanide or some other poison to deter predators. thats another definite change you should make. granted, if their giant millipedes they'll be hard to eat, but of course the baby millipedes arent quite as huge. so i would take them out unless you wanna take chances of losing a few gex.

Jeeeeze, I'm a quite jealous. I've always wanted to have something like that, that is very cool. Must require alot of maintenance? I'm really not that big in the game I suppose. I dont think I could ever get around to breed all those insects though, that must be a commitment and a half. That is very neat though, good to hear there are some really enthusiastic people out there, care to post any photos of your terrariums? I'd love to see them!
~Ethan
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Suzy was a pretty girl,
But that she is no more.
For what she thought was H2O,
Was H2SO4!
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAA

first of all I'd like to say thanks for all the feedback.
It's good to find people to talk shop with. Now I know that mixing leopards and cresteds have very different needs and I admit it is kind of complicated to cater to both species. However, in Philippe de Vosjoli, Frank Fast, and Allen Repashy's book "Rhacodactylus" theres a section titled "mixing species in naturalistic vivaria". They site successfully keeping giant millipedes with crested and skinks and other various geckos. You just have make sure to avoid close niches within the terrarium and or close behavioral propensities of species. The way I've set up to accomidate cresteds and leopards is by having a temp gradient going from bottom to top and a humidity gradient going from top to bottom. I built my actual terrariums to fit in large six foot tall bay windows. the bottom where the leopards hang out is dry and hot. I use under tank heating pads. Then there are large planted platforms at various levels that block that heat from rising pretty efficiently. At the top of the terrarium there is a small poultry fan and a fogger both on timers and it is heavily planted providing a cooler, more humid spot for the cresties to hang out. I do suppose though, that if someone is looking to house a single leopard and a single crested in a small basic tank, it would be unavoidable.

oh yeah, and my setup pics won't fit on this site. Too many Kb apparently. I'll have to snap some lower quality pics and get them up here. It's a pretty cool set up. Getting started was costly and time consuming with the insect breeding and creating the large terrarium but now that everything is up and running it actually requires very little maintenance and I no longer have to purchase feeder insects. Saves on bucks! I probably give everything a five minute lookover every day and thats it.
well, keep herping folks,
Jason

I forgot to mention one downside of having a nearly functioning eco-system for a set up. In nature there are natural predator prey relationships and the same rules apply here. If you miss any eggs and they hatch in the setup the babies will definately get eaten pretty quickly. I've been cleaning and found a few crested egg shells with no evidence of their owners. The leopards have always stuck with the lay boxes I provide but sometimes the crested will lay in weird places like the base of tree branches or inside bromiliad type plants...Nature tends to be a little merciless so check carefully for those little eggs.

sorry, i dont mean to be rude or a smartass, but there is no point in what you are writing. yes you can withoug any problem keep grown milipedes with cresteds, but if they produce small milipedes the geckos will eat the small ones, and since they produce some kind of cyanid, your geckos may die from it. (may die)

yes, allen repashy and co wrote about keeping other reptiles together with cresteds, but NOT leos! since leos live closer to the ground and need heat there, where do you have cool spots fot the cresteds? always remember heat goes up, and cresteds dont necessarily like it very warm.
they wrote about pink-tongue skinks and such, and those skinks, dont eat other lizards like leos do.
off course i bet your setup is fun to watch, with all the action and galdiators game, but imho thats not the right way.

best regards

ingo

If we are forgetting one thing here, it may be that herp keeping is not just about following the guidelines, sticking with traditional methods, or following conformity. There are tried and true ways to keep herps, which, naturally, work well. However, were would we go if we didn't push the boundaries a little, and do things, such as make setups, that aren't "supposed" to work. If it is successful, looks cool, and in general provides enjoyment to those who live in it and those who maintain it, the hell with everything else. What I'm trying to say here, is that there is a point where breaking rules is, in the long run, a good thing. Look at jazz for instance, jazz is all about breaking rules. It started out as a definable style of doing things, but then some of the younger cats came in there with some new ideas of what they thought would sound even better, thus creating different styles of jazz, different ways to solo, and different ways of dealing with the rules...in some cases, throwing the rules completely out the window (as in fusion and free playing). They didn't care about society's defenition of the right way to do something, they were non-conformists, and thats how boundaries were broken. They made it so that there was to "right way" to play jazz. That is precisely how jazz became so diversified and complex. Sound Liberal?....a little to the left of the political spectrum?lol. This metaphorical example serves only to give you folks out there something to simply think about. By its very nature, (no pun intended) nature is unforgiving. This is why we humans are here, because our ancestors that didnt have favorable attributes.....died. Add a couple million years for evolution to steam along, and here we are. I think it is very impressive that you (Jason) are making setups like the ones you do. They like a natural environment, in which some inhabitants are consumed, some consume, and some just hide and wait till it's nighttime to eat Anyway, this whole long thing here is just to show my message: Try something different, something that goes against (dare I say it?) your better judgement. This can apply to almost any instance in life as well, not just herping. So just give it a thought. It'll be fun to see where herping goes in the following years.
Sincerely,

~Ethan
-----
Suzy was a pretty girl,
But that she is no more.
For what she thought was H2O,
Was H2SO4!
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAA

okay, let me ask you this: where is the advantage for the reptiles? none, 0 nada
a setup like that is not natural! it isnt, because in nature there arent that many animals in such a small place, its more than unfair for little r. ciliatus or little e. macularius.
btw i can tell you, that at least the cresteds wont feel fine, like you said in such a kind of setup. they like to hang out near the ground sometimes, but cannot without getting attacked by leos.
not speaking of the climate, which cant fit either the leos requirements nor the cresteds...
cresteds dont like temps above 28°C they need 70-90% humidity, where leos like much higher tems and humidity from 50-70%.

if his setup is THAT lagre (what i acutally dont believe because most people who stick reptiles together that shouldnt be kept together do it because of money or spaceproblems, i would like to see pics of that setup) why not make 2 smaller appropriate setups for both species in which they will feel and develope much better.
breaking rules is good sometimes, but only if it makes sense, and there is absolutely no reason to stick leos and cresteds together, the only one that benefits of that is the keeper. (less space requirement, less money needed, more show for him)

the nature argument wont fit, as in nature there is less density and more hideouts, you wouldnt like a bear of a man walking towards you, breaking your neck, just because its survival of the fittest, either...
you as a herper are supposed to keep your reptiles as good as you can, then do it.

Hypothetically speaking, if this hypothetical man broke my hypothetical neck in an act of pure desparation as a result of being extremely hungry, than I guess I wouldn't mind that much, as long as he ate me. Hypothetically, of course. And nature isn't fair, thats the wonderful thing about it. Granted the population densities in nature are nowhere near that, but do you think these lizards know what their original habitat was? These are home-grown, designer geckos we're talking about here, any afterthought or longing for their natural habitat has long since dissappeared...given that any such lizard has the ability of abstract thought. Point is, these lizards are not concious of how their habitat should be, only if it is comfortable. My setup for my crested fluctuates humidity all the time, as temperature. From extremely low humidity to relatively high. These critters aren't as sensitive as commonly believed, they will be happy as long as the habitat requirements are close to what they would be in their "natural habitat". Who cares if the setup doesn't make sense? That it serves no purpose, it works. Lord knows he's most likely not dissapointing, upsetting, or emotionally damaging these lizards. They are happy as long as their bellies are full and they have their space, essentially.
Thoughtfully,
~Ethan
-----
Suzy was a pretty girl,
But that she is no more.
For what she thought was H2O,
Was H2SO4!
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAA

not because of eating, just because you are in his territory. and thats exactly what the leos will try to do. and as you said, climate should be close to there requirements...
and thats not possible, think of iran and then think of new caledonia? any more to say?
keeping thoese two species together is just for you peoples enjoyment, ant thats why you try to speak for him, because you made the same mistake. go ask allen repashy if you dont believe me. there might be reptiles that can be housed together, but leos and cresteds dont fit together.

and it isnt naturally to throw those 2 species in a tank and look who will survive, as they would never ever meet in nature.

First of all, I am not speaking for him. I am not taking any sides. If you dont like that I disagree with you, than that is entirely another matter. I am speaking for the general idea of having a setup akin to that. I am fully aware of my mistake in allowing my two geckos to interact, it was rash, and I should not have done it without first inquiring. That however is far from me HOUSING the two together, as I am well aware of their climactic differences and how that would make it difficult to keep either happy.
And this is precisely why I believe there should be a herpotoligical reality show: "and it isnt naturally to throw those 2 species in a tank and look who will survive, as they would never ever meet in nature." Now wouldn't that be entertaining? A new box office hit. Who cares about natural, lets go for ratings! Keep it real.
Facetiously yours,
~Ethan
-----
Suzy was a pretty girl,
But that she is no more.
For what she thought was H2O,
Was H2SO4!
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAA

hehe, ok, i do believe you understand my arguments now. =)
there is nothing wrong witch experimentation, as long as
no living creature gets hurt.
read the rhacodactylus book, there are other species, that
can be housed together with cresteds, if your container
is large enough. eventough it may not work, it always depends
on the individual animals.

cya

ingo

Yeah it's been great discussing with you! I've been wanting to get my hands on that rhaco book, it looks incredible, I'll see if I can make that happen. For the first time ever, I saw a crested in a normal old, average petstore, isn't that incredible? Maybe I'm just sheltered because I'm in central NY, and cresteds dont get around here much, but I went to a show in syracuse, and that one had cresteds everywhere. any thoughts?
~Ethan
-----
Suzy was a pretty girl,
But that she is no more.
For what she thought was H2O,
Was H2SO4!
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAA

you're lucky the poor little crestie didn't lose any toes.....sheesh!
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2.0.0 Cresteds
1.1.0 Afican Fat Tail
0.1.1 Viper Tail
0.0.1 Oedura castelnaui

GOOD THREAD...Very civil guys. I like all the posts, but both sides are kicking a dead dog, you BOTH make good arguments, but this could go on for months...

heh-heh, why thank you! Quite true though, this could rage on for years.......amusing isn't it? We should go for a new record!
~Ethan
-----
Suzy was a pretty girl,
But that she is no more.
For what she thought was H2O,
Was H2SO4!
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAA