Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I discovered my (E.t.taeniura)stripe-tailed rat wrapped around a clutch of eggs in her nest box today. Unfortunately, there were only five eggs, but they were very large, largest of any ratsnake I've seen. I wanted to get the eggs out to put them in the incubator, but she was wrapped around them, they were glued together, and she would give a big "flinch" each time I tried to touch them. Finally I disturbed her enough to get them all out at one time.

I wasn't looking for eggs, though, because she was one of the last to breed. I had several other species that had bred, and must carry the eggs lots longer. The beauties must have a fairly short gestation period and probably a longer incubation period. I'm looking for them to hatch in around 60 days. If anyone has any numbers to throw at me, I'd appreciate it.

Both parents are supposed to be heterozygous for the "calico" trait. I think that means I'm supposed to get around 25% calico, so I should probably expect one calico stripe-tail, if the parents were both het, and there ends up being five eggs.

Thanks for any help. This was my first time breeding taeniura. BTW, I didn't know if the breeding would take because the male was only 2.5 yrs. old, and maybe half as heavy as the female. He's probably around three ft. long. Cool snakes..I'm pretty excited. Now for the incubation, haha.

PS Sorry no pics, yet. Have to wait for them to get developed.)

TC

>>the incubator, but she was wrapped around them, they were glued together, and she would give a big "flinch" each time I tried to touch them. Finally I disturbed her enough to get them all out at one time.

Most ratsnakes do that. Not being wrapped around the eggs defensively is the exception rather than the rule. But tey usually leave them after several hours. You probably just caught her right after laying.

>period. I'm looking for them to hatch in around 60 days. If anyone has any numbers to throw at me, I'd appreciate it.

Looking at my records, my chinese beauties hatched in 63 days at an incubation of ~83 degrees.

>>Both parents are supposed to be heterozygous for the "calico" trait. I think that means I'm supposed to get around 25% calico,

That's what it means. On average, 25% normal, 50% het, 25% calico. Good luck - I hope you beat the odds and get all calicos!

-DT
Ophidiophile Farms

Thanks for the info, David. I guess I was a little scared she was going to nail my hand when I was reaching in, and she bumped real hard compared to other snakes. But now that you mentioned it, I do remember quite a few being wrapped around their eggs. Next time I'll let them be for a day...I was anxious. I hope to get all calico too, ahhaha..fat chance :O) Later...TC.

My African House Snake also exhibited some twitching when I accidentally tried to remove her from the egg box while she was laying. Not really defensive- just letting me know she wasn't ready to come out.
Good luck with your eggs!
Lora

Thanks, Lora. I know someone else that's really into the African house snakes (Dave P). He says they are very interesting and nice to work with. I don't remember ever seeing much info on these on any forum. Are they a lot like ratsnakes? Maybe you could make a post describing them here, comparing them to the ratsnakes of Asia or N. A. Was your clutch very large? Talk more later...Terry.

I know it's off topic since they aren't ratsnakes... African House Snakes are neat little constrictors. Behaviourly very like small pythons(spotteds and childrens), though the ones I have NEVER bite! OK I'll knock on wood . They are probably the easiest snake to keep- temp 70-80, moderate humidity, no brumation, small adult size 3-5', breed like bunnies, eat frozen thawed like it's going out of style... First clutch was 17 very small eggs, second was 12 (though I was out of town when she laid so they weren't salvagable). The female spent almost 2 days in the egg box before leaving the eggs. Eggs take around 65-70 days to hatch (I'm on day 57). I got my current pair because I needed something to do while I waited for my Mandarin Rats to grow up! AHS are calmer than my rat snakes, don't musk or tail rattle, and are less timid to feed than my Mandarins.

Lora

Thanks, Lora. I know someone else that's really into the African house snakes (Dave P). He says they are very interesting and nice to work with. I don't remember ever seeing much info on these on any forum. Are they a lot like ratsnakes? Maybe you could make a post describing them here, comparing them to the ratsnakes of Asia or N. A. Was your clutch very large? Talk more later...Terry.

Thanks for all the information and good luck with those. They sound like they could make a great addition to a ratsnake collection

Just thought I'd mention that although The African Brown House Snake (Lamprophis fulginosis) is the most commonly kept, there are actually many different species of House snakes (Genus Lamprophis). I keep Lamprophis aurora - The Aurora House Snake - which is quite different from fulginosis. There are also Namib Big-eyed House Snakes, Olive House Snakes, Fisk's House Snakes and more.

Ophidiophile Farms

Almost looks like an aberrant Mandarin.

Does it ever have elliptical eyes, 'cus the one I've looked at (fulginosis) had elliptical eyes?

Thanks..TC.

>>Almost looks like an aberrant Mandarin.
>>
>>Does it ever have elliptical eyes, 'cus the one I've looked at (fulginosis) had elliptical eyes?
>>

All Lamprophis have elliptical pupils but they are much more so in fulginosis than in aurora. When aurora pupils close up in bright light they can be seen to be elliptical but usually they look round.

As for looking like an aberrrant Mandarin, their habits are actually similar in that they like it cool, moist, and are very secretive. But the similarities obviously end there -- they are not an Elaphe species and don't get anywhere near the size of Robyn's monster or even an average Mandarin. They are more like 18" (male) to 24" (female).

-DT

Ophidiophile Farms

Are they nocturnal, Dave? I'm going to have to check them out on your website TC. Thanks for the info.

The Auroras are beauties! I've just got the browns... they're not as shy as the Auroras from what I've heard.
Lora

>>The Auroras are beauties! I've just got the browns... they're not as shy as the Auroras from what I've heard.
>>Lora

No you're right. Browns are pretty bulletproof snakes - I've kept and bred those too, though quite a few years ago. I liked them a lot and as you said in a previous post, they are like little mini-pythons. They are also REALLY prolific! Auroras are shy, tricky feeders sometimes, and not at all prolific. Sometimes I wonder why both these snakes are Lamprophis!? If you haven't checked out the Namib Big-Eyes, those are very cool too and much more like fulginosis than auroras. There's a House Snake link off the kingsnake FAQs page that's got a bunch of photos.

I agree that the Auroras are the odd ball of the Lamprophis group. Structurally they seem very different from the others. I've seen the AHS care sheet here on Kingsnake. It's very well laid out and has answered a lot of my questions. There's also a discussion group on Yahoo- though it's deathly quiet lately...
Lora

My E. climacophora female was downright aggressive after laying. I'm not sure if it was hunger and the stress of laying or actual egg-guarding, but she flinched, rattled, and struck. Usually a docile snake.

I don't think she did that out of hunger. Snakes usually don't feed immediately, but wait a few days before eating again. I'd be willing to bet she was having some of the same instincts as my stripe-tail. Was she wrapped around the eggs at all?

I think it was minutes after this photo!

Nice group of eggs and snake. Thanks.

My taeniura was wrapped much more tightly, however, and all the way around the eggs, holding them. She would practically jump a couple inches if I touched her or the eggs. Maybe taeniura does it a little more than most other ratsnakes.

TC

I know that some calico as retic or guttata develop their calico pattern after some time (if I remember well after some years), is the same with taeniura?
regards
nazzza
ps
A friend have pics of dione hatching, i'll post that soon

I don't think so, Nazza. The gene for calico is recessive, I believe, and when it is present from both parents, the offspring will not look like the normal snake. That is what I've been led to believe. Of course, once those eggs hatch, I'll know for sure, hopefully. Thanks for the question...TC.

I've been thinking about the behavior I've read about in some (or all?) pythons, where the mother wraps her body around the eggs, and broods them while they incubate. I looked up "brood" in the dictionary and found one definition to mean "looking over or defending one's brood".

Now, I know ratsnakes are quite a bit different from pythons, but I think there's definitely something going on with this behavior of wrapping around the eggs. I don't think they're like the pythons in the sense they could raise the temperature by body vibrations, or anything, but I do think they are guarding the eggs, watching over them.

When I put my hand in with my stripe-tailed female I was very fearful that her head would come up and nail my hand good. I'm not sure if anyone has actually studied this behavior, but I think it's very interesting. I know DT said that they would only stay with the eggs for a number of hours, but if anyone has any other info on how long various females stay with their eggs, I would appreciate hearing about it?

My question is then, "How long do various ratsnake species actually spend with their eggs?"

I think I might check into that next time I have the opportunity with a taeniura, and maybe some other species. I bet different species have different lengths of time they'll spend with their eggs too.

I think you could leave the eggs alone for several days, if need be, and still hatch them. I know my herp room is warm enough and the nest box is humid enough to keep them alive for days. One or two times I've been on vacation and have been gone a week or two, only to come home and find eggs, and still hatched them. Maybe the female could even go full term with the eggs and have them hatch , but I doubt any would stay with the eggs too long.

Anyway, I do get curious about behaviors, and I leave you all with these thoughts about brooding.

BTW, I might not be around too much this week, as I have several field trips to go on, including all day tomorrow.

Later......TC.