Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just got back from vacation (good news)
Just before I left (as you already know) Spike Died
My Neighbor did a necroscopy on him, and found him TOTALLY emaciated, ZERO body fat, Muscle mass badly atrophied (wasted away)
I pretty much nknew this, but its good to see
what is NOT good to see its there was NO INFECTION
Somehow he just DIED
in a tank, with Fish, and worms available at all times, and crickets sometimes too
He died of starvation

My Other little guy is looking just as bad, so I fed him a nightcrawler, and when he weas allowing the worm to crawl back out his mouth, I tricked him into swalowing, by dripping water into his mouth

I plan to do the same thing in 2 days, and maybe some babyfood and pedialyte in between days. From what I have learned from this Necroscopy, I need to be a bit more agressive with these guys. I thought I was being TOO agressive

NOW
onto the good news

On my way home I needed to get some Nightcrawlers for my Dragons, and so I stopped at this Pet Store that I do not like much (they do not treat their animals well, it is a Pets Plus) but they have very good prices for their canadian nightcrawlers. I always look to see if any animals need rescuing. They seem to treat the mammals well, and Birds ok, but reptiles are in sad shape there. They had 3 Mountain Dragons. Carpa's or Armata's (I think) no X on the Neck, and smaller than Erowne, but same size (big wize) as Tripod and Erik/a. Not nearly as small as Tracker is (still is)

When i got them home and into the Quarentine tank, they were BRIGHT green, and yellow in their Spine tips, all 3 had Blue in the ear pads and around the mouths (2 look to be male though, so the blue thing might not be a be-all-end-all anymore)
2 of them ate the nightcrawlers I offered, and I am going to keep the food dish as full as I can, till they get seen by the vet. I have plenty of Pancure, so I can treat them as soon as possible (am just waiting on the call back from the vet, if he wants a fecal first)
I am hoping that they are in good shape over all, one of them even has fat legs.

Now more bad news

Tripods foot is swollen, badly, and might need to come off. I am still waiting on the vet for that too. We shall see

TTYL
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Elizabeth (ecb)

Make this world a better and more beautiful place that You have been in it
*Edward W Bok*

That seems very strange that a healthy animal would starve to death. I swear though that I have seen this with some of my babies right up to 6-7 months of age. The ones that died at the older end of this range looked perfectly healthy but just died. I have seen some of the tiny ones in the first month starve to death. They would just never seem to develop the feeding response while the others were eating like little piggies.

Anyway, with the tiny ones I don't see much we could do to prevent death since they are too small to force feed, but I have to wonder if it is something with the nutrients that prevent the older ones from developing normal body fat and muscle. I sure wish there was something that could be done. At any rate it sounds like we need to find some way to introduce more fat to the diet of the young ones.
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Marcia - FroggieB Dragons
www.froggieb.com/MHDHome.html

groups.yahoo.com/group/agamid/join
(click the link to join the agamid group on yahoo)

maybe something like olive oil in the meat mixture?
or would that be bad for their digestion?

as to how hard it is to force feed the little guys
I got a smaller nightcrawler in his Mouth, and got it going head first down, then tricked him into swallowing it all the way down.

Dr G just called me back
he is going to get the info he needs about taking Tripods leg off without killing him

He says I can go ahead and treat the new guys with Pancure, and he will see them later when they are better established (does not want to stress them more than necessary)

I forgot to tell him about the necroscopy

I will keep you appraised about Triod and Tracker
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Elizabeth (ecb)

Make this world a better and more beautiful place that You have been in it
*Edward W Bok*

Actually the difficulty I was talking about was with the little ones the first couple months of their lives. When an animal is only 3-4" total length and only 1/4 to 3/8" across the head force feeding is just about impossible. I have tried it but find that they baby is so stressed by this that it usually dies anyway.

I doubt that a little olive oil would be harmful but think maybe some vit E or D might be better and am considering offering waxworms since they are high in fats.

As for Tripod, I am sorry to hear he is going to have to lose the leg. It is much better though than to lose him to infection!
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Marcia - FroggieB Dragons
www.froggieb.com/MHDHome.html

groups.yahoo.com/group/agamid/join
(click the link to join the agamid group on yahoo)

That really is a pity. I hope everything works out with your remaining dragons!
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April
1.0 Mali Uromastyx- Embrodak,
0.1 Saharan Uromastyx- Scheherazade
2.1 Mountain Horned Dragon- Beren, Luthien and Tinuviel
3.0.5 Hermit Crabs- Violet, Polly, Jennifer, Trogdor, Hedwig, Penelope and Sinistra
1.1 Five lined Skink- Leela and Fry
1.0 Bettas-Nuala

Thanks sweetie
I am being a bit more agressive with Tracker than I was with any of the others

he has 2 worms on board, and i have gotten about 0.3cc of Oil mixture, and total 1.5 or 2 cc of Pedialyte
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Elizabeth (ecb)

Make this world a better and more beautiful place that You have been in it
*Edward W Bok*

1.5 or 2 over the past 2.5 days

AM and PM feedings

Sunday Night, yesterday am and pm, and this morning
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Elizabeth (ecb)

Make this world a better and more beautiful place that You have been in it
*Edward W Bok*

I took a Fish Oil Capsil and one Vit E and one Vit A
and I am getting some Sun Drops and will add a drop of that to a Tbsp of Olive Oil

I "Force Feed" by Dripping the Pedialyte to the lips, and the dragon licks the drops down, then when the mouth was open I would drop a drop of oil in the mouth

I only put in a Drop or two of the oil, because he rubs his mouth when I put them in

and Force feeding the worms is hard, but it goes down, then tricking him into swallowing by dripping fluids

He has not regurgatated any of the worms yet.

he did tip his head and expell the fluids this morning

I know he has 2 worms down, and the vet is going to mix me up some Cipro (for me to pick up tonight)

and he says just treat the new guys with Pancure, its not likely they are clear as their horns are gone (except one horn on the smaller Male) and they are mostly grown
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Elizabeth (ecb)

Make this world a better and more beautiful place that You have been in it
*Edward W Bok*