Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone have any photos or information regarding these subspecies, info as far as appearance, coloration, size, etc..

Particulary the west african form, aslo info on their value here in the USA might be good as well.

Suggested subspecies: C. n. africanus (East African Nile crocodile), C. n. chamses (West African Nile crocodile), C. n. corviei (South African Nile crocodile)

Donny,

Currently there are no officially recognised subspecies of nile crocodiles (Crocodylus niloticus), although this wide ranging species shows considerable variation in size, reproduction, DNA, color, scutes,..etc.

With this said there are some distinctive charateristics in populations. For instance,one example, is that eastern populations of niles have an extra belly scute in each row compared to animals in the western and southern ranges.

Truly,

Paul Bodnar

Although I agree to some extent with what Paul said below I'll throw my 2 cents in here as well. After many a discussion with various crocophiles the world over I have come to the conclusion while there are slight differences in these animals most appear to be as much related to the habitat they live in as per any genetic differences.

Personally I see animals offered as locality forms as a way to basically stand out in the consumer marketplace. If one scale means $500 more dollars to you then by all means purchase.

But in my collection I have a niloticus from Madagascar, South Africa, and East Africa. Although I have questions about the latter. All grow at the same rate and all are getting huge. I'm not sold that one form grows larger than another because of genetic reasons, I think they grow larger because the habitat they live in simply allows it to be so. Just like the niloticus in the Sahara stay small due to limited environmental conditions.....are they genetically predisposed to smaller size or just forced into that pattern because that is what the environment allows for survival? I bet on the latter.

I'm sure genetic variance occurs, just not sold that the 'size' limits often stated are at all reliable.

So would i spend extra cash on a locality..........IMHO, no. At least not something I would overspend or go out of my way to do.

But then I could be wrong............

>>Does anyone have any photos or information regarding these subspecies, info as far as appearance, coloration, size, etc..
>>
>>Particulary the west african form, aslo info on their value here in the USA might be good as well.
>>
>>Suggested subspecies: C. n. africanus (East African Nile crocodile), C. n. chamses (West African Nile crocodile), C. n. corviei (South African Nile crocodile)

Paul, Chris,
Thanks for the info on the niles, I was curious because I have a skin/live croc contact in West Africa that keeps offering me these.

Chris, sup buddy long time since we spoke

Donny,

I was wondering if that was the same Donny. Hey email me and I'll send you my phone number or give me a call. I'd like to touch base and catch up a little.

CD

>Paul, Chris,
>>Thanks for the info on the niles, I was curious because I have a skin/live croc contact in West Africa that keeps offering me these.
>>
>>Chris, sup buddy long time since we spoke

Chris,
I tried 2 email you a while back & again the other night, I dont know if you are receiving them or not ..

You can email me at donny039 @ sprintpcs.com

Hi Chris,

We keep a large group of both varieties of niles. The "East Africans" all came from a group of animals which were brought into the USA years ago, from Crutchfield, most of these Niles (30 ) have now attained a good size, some being 50 % bright yellow and very distinctive in both eye color and skin color from imports over recent years.

We also keep a large population (20 ) of "West Niles" so far none have obtained the size we see in the eastern form. Color is a darker rather drab grey in adults.

Keeping in mind when looking at these separate localities even an inexperienced person can see many very distinctive differences...

Jury is still out on genetics and size relationships, however many of the "monsters" are found in the eastern portions of Africa today.

Truly,

Paul Bodnar

Hi Paul,

Like I stated I agree with much of what you have said, I see differences in color......some, but the question I was addressing was whether these animals are worth extra bucks, IMHO the differences are slight, and not worth upteen dollars. It is a marketing ploy to some degree, you can see the differeces but they are not enough to make me lift $500 additional dollars from my wallet. They all look impressive. But to each his own.

As to the rest, I again don't disagree,just throwing my hat into the environment end of the pool. A good test would be to keep all localities the same from birth and see what happens. From my experience they seem to grow the same, time will tell on maximum sizes though..........and my 'experiment' is flawed as I have a smaller group of animals, to be definitive we may need 100 per locality. Anyone volunteer the space

Sincerely,
CD

>>
>>Jury is still out on genetics and size relationships, however many of the "monsters" are found in the eastern portions of Africa today.
>>
>>Truly,
>>
>>Paul Bodnar

Hi Chris,

Agreed Chris any Crocodile is a great Crocodile!!! An interesting color form...or distinct genetic population? Have you had a chance to see the Niles at Gatorland...these used to be the breeders Crutchfield housed...one animal in particular is outstanding as far as yellow content.

I love to see variation in crocs...went in the Northern Territory, Australia to see Grahame Webb and Adam Britton. Some of the salties have the most amazing eye color. In these crocs the eyes literally glow with a bright yellow color..simply beautiful. I love the color yellow in crocs..I guess that is why I keep Cubans.

Truly,

Paul Bodnar