Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I originally made the comment about Brandons animal so Im assumming that the below posts saying people over analyze etc... are referring to me. Now understand this if someone posts something on here are we to all just blindly oohhh and ahhh and not question anything if we find it odd ???? Thats the way things dont get discussed or any good exchanges happen. I felt Brandons animal looked weird for a "Goini" I guess when I think something like this I shouldnt question it from now on right ??? Or does it depend on if the animals pretty or not ? Brandon has no idea where that animal came from but he says he got it at a show and he admits there may be Floridana influence in the snake or the other breeder he used. For you Brandon.... GROW UP saying you are going to "take your toys and go home" went out with grade school. The worst part is that all these people posted below you to say please dont go etc.... Get over it folks if you cant ask a question here here then what good is this forum. I also recall a few years ago I posted a pic of a Eastern King from somebody and it had some red in it. Brandon trashed this snake saying it cant be an Eastern becasue it didnt fit that he thought Easterns looked like. I guess that sort of criticism is a one way street. Sorry Im rambling here but Im pissed that everyone seemed to follow like sheep at the same time criticizing me and others for even mentioning something about his animals.

Keith
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OK, OK - maybe I was a little harsh with my comments... but his animals were called into question, publicly - and then some people seemed to "pile on".

It appears there are two types of breeders / keepers:
1. Locale specific
2. Selective breeding for color, etc.

There is room for both - and for people who like BOTH (like me).

No need to get angry and also there is no need to question the integrity of Brandon's animals PUBLICLY. That is not cool.

You could always send a private email and ask him about the specific genetics... before you inject comments like throwing gasoline on a fire...

Keith, your website is awesome... as a matter of fact, it is probably the single biggest reason for my re-entry into Kings Snakes after a long hiatus. I even dumped my Green Tree's for them. However, that does not make it "ok" to publicly call Brandon's integrity into question on a public forum.

By the way - we can all disagree here and not hate each other's guts, right? I hope so because I really don't want any enemies.

Just my 2 cents.

Peter Jolles

Your way off base. Here is my origional post

I dont mean to stir the pot Brandon but that snake looks like it has some Floridana in it. Can you post pics of the breeders ? Its a pretty snake for sure it just looks like it has too many crossbars and too much head pattern ??? Maybe Im way off though.

I never questioned Brandons integrity and he himself said there might be Florida genetics in there. This is a Reptile forum we are not making life and death decisions here and if I see something Im curious about I will make a comment but I always make it open ended. Now if I had said "Brandon your a hack I cant believe you are pawning that off as a Goini" thats different and I didnt say that or infer it. I dont believe that he is by the way I just wanted to see what animals went into that snake. I never thought politcal correctness would find its way into the kingsnake forum lol.

Keith

>>OK, OK - maybe I was a little harsh with my comments... but his animals were called into question, publicly - and then some people seemed to "pile on".
>>
>>It appears there are two types of breeders / keepers:
>>1. Locale specific
>>2. Selective breeding for color, etc.
>>
>>There is room for both - and for people who like BOTH (like me).
>>
>>No need to get angry and also there is no need to question the integrity of Brandon's animals PUBLICLY. That is not cool.
>>
>>You could always send a private email and ask him about the specific genetics... before you inject comments like throwing gasoline on a fire...
>>
>>Keith, your website is awesome... as a matter of fact, it is probably the single biggest reason for my re-entry into Kings Snakes after a long hiatus. I even dumped my Green Tree's for them. However, that does not make it "ok" to publicly call Brandon's integrity into question on a public forum.
>>
>>By the way - we can all disagree here and not hate each other's guts, right? I hope so because I really don't want any enemies.
>>
>>Just my 2 cents.
>>
>>Peter Jolles
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I saw your post as a simple question without referring to Brandon's intergrity at all. And I thought that was what this forum was here for...open discussions. If we can't ask people where they bought there snake or where it came from or if that's rude in some way, then I've been rude for a long time.

Now below I made some comments about Gulf Coast Reptiles' "goini" and I did make some comments about their intergity because I know they have not correctly labeled some of the "goini" they have advertised. That IS referring to their integrity. But not your comments made to Brandon.

You also wrote this:

"Notice the way the ontogenetic change has taken place on this snake. Its very reminescent of a Floridana (Brooksi). Most if not all Apalachicola Kings (Goini if you will) have the telltale half black scale that makes up the majority of pattern on those animals."

Please. The very nature of the Apalachicola is variation because it is an intergrade. Brandon's snakes may be lighter but a lot of people selectively breed for lightness.

Well I see how to ruffle Hillson's feathers... heh heh heh.

Peter Jolles

I took your question as a question and not an attack. The problem with these forums is it is sometimes difficult to gauge one's intentions. It's too bad sometimes feelings are hurt and valuable contributers to the forum are sometimes lost. I wish trolls were as easy to get rid of. On the other hand, I can understand Brandon's reaction and think he has handled himself pretty darn well considering. I usually don't jump into these frays, as you can probably tell from this middle of the road post - lol.

Peace everyone and please keep posting!
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Tim

If you think it... say it. Don't beat around the bush.

Peter Jolles

I was talking about internet forums in general, not about anyone posting in these threads. That is what I mean about mistaken intentions. You know what a troll is - someone who posts something to deliberately inflame someone. If I saw that here, I missed it.
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Tim

My motto is "ready, fire, aim."

Sorry Tim!

Peter Jolles

I agree with the above post that it's easy to misinterpret a written message. I certainly didn't mean to imply that it's wrong to ever question any claims made on this forum or anywhere else. I agree with Keith that questioning things is how we all learn and should be expected and accepted in a forum like this. I also don't feel that the questioning was a direct attack on Brandon or his integrity. However, I can also see why the questioning offended Brandon as it did. He was obviously very proud of the babies he produced and eager to share the pictures with others. When one of the first replies to his post questioned the true origins of the animals, it probably seemed to him that others were maybe just a little to eager to "nitpick." Like I said before, there is nothing wrong with questioning things, but we all sometimes seem a little too eager to do it. Anyway, I hope we can all manage to put this behind us somehow. There are too many people out there that hate all snakes, and would gladly take our hobby away from us, for us to be fighting with each other. I know this is long and rambling. Hope it makes some kind of sense.

Todd

np

yes, we forget that most people think we are weirdo's -and here we are arguing with each other. Pretty silly.

Concerning "nitpicking" - that is it in a nutshell. But I guess if we did not have the "nitpickers" there would be no more Easterns, Florida's, etc... there would just be the "Common Kingsnake".

Peter Jolles

There's nothing at all wrong with being concerned with locality, "pure" bloodlines, etc. I myself like locality info on my snakes, if possible. We all just sometimes go overboard due to our enthusiasm for our hobby. At least it shows we're passionate about what we do.