Reptile & Amphibian Forums

there is a local guy by me in oregon who has an argus male in the classifieds. it is sitting on tile with a little newspaper. it has probably been in the shop for a while. it looks like crap and no wonder why.

ps: there is also a bunch of venemous in the room in non-locking cages, a big alligator in a small pond, etc.

same guy was kicked out of another county because of not obeying local snake laws.

i am looking so forward to people like this screwing it up for me and other people who keep responsibly.

anybody have any friends in the advertising department?

andrew

the worst pic ever and i am not talking about colors.

found this in the classifieds

anybody want this one? lol

andrew

back in nov. I found a sav. at a local petstore (death camp) that was in worse condition than that. I explained to the owner his deplorable conditions, and pretty much strong armed the monitor from him. He gave me the ole', I don' know what happened it just stopped eating a few months ago. It looked to me like the animal hadn't eaten in a year. I brought it home and did what I could. It wouldn't eat but when I put my hand in the tank it would gape at me, allowing me to drop a little cooked turkey and egg in its mouth. The poor guy continued to decline over the next 6-7 days, expiring shorly after. I really thought I could save it, guess he was to far gone. I certainly wasn't in the market for a sav, I just couldn't leave it there. In hind sight I should have just zip-locked him and placed him in the freezer, instead he had to endure what had to have been an uncomfortable death. I try not to think about that side of the industry. Sorry for the sad story, felt I needed to get it of my chest, especially after that pic. Don't flame me my heart was in the right place. Clint

Hi Clint, please remember this is for you to learn.

I am not condoning what the petshop did, but, what you did was no different. Both of you acted out of ingnorance.

Its obvious to you, that the petshop owner was ignorant on how to care for monitors. So you look down upon that person. At least thats how you portraited that here.

To some, you did the same thing. What to did to that monitor surely killed it. You should never give a severely dehydrated monitor solid food. You should never give a very sick monitor solid food. Doing so, can be a death sentence.

One of the things that happens to dehydrated monitors and sick monitors(most animals) is, they stop producing gastric juices. Therefore, when you force feed them solid food, it sits in the stomach undigested, rots, goes septic and kills them.

What you should do has been said a thousand or more times, that is, TAKE THE MONITOR TO A VET. The vet will most likely do what all urgent care givers would do, GIVE IT FLUIDS. Then after its hydrated, start giving nutrition thru IV or easily absorbed forumulas.

If you decide to try this yourself, you can give electrolytes, like pedialite or some such liquid for hydrading babies. Then use a pinky pump and give very small amounts of liquifided pinkies. Of course the vet is better.

So really, your ignorace was as bad as the petshop owners.

On the other hand, some surely would feel a quick death was in order and you helped in that direction. Yes, the bag and the freezer would have been faster. But again, Vets have methods that are also better for that.

From your discription, the petshop person was nice about it and was simply ignorant. I hope your nice about this and accept that you to were being ignorant. If the petshop person, got mad and fought with you, they indeed would be the villin. If you decide to fight with me, then your the villin. But please do not worry, I too am the bad guy, because I have also killed monitors by doing stupid ingnorant things. Hopefully we all can learn from it. Thanks FR

For once I agree with Frank(what did I just say?)....about the feeding solid foods to dehydrated monitors...

As for calling people ignorant, I do not condone that... Yes, people make mistakes, that is what learning is all about. I mean, look at the mistake that Travis and his father made a couple of weeks ago.. yes, a tragic mistake, but they now know what a hemipenis is/looks like, for future references... they learned...

I think more people should actually acknowledge their own mistakes, as opposed to making the same ones again and again(ie. buying savanah after savanah after savanah, until one survives).

I think that regardless of the animal's health, it was better off in a loving, caring person's possession, as opposed to a pet store's who will just "write it off", when it dies. Pet stores don't have the time or committment to deal with sick $5 lizards. I'm with you clint, despite the animal not succeeding.

Isn't it better to try and fail, then to never try at all... The animal was destined for death anyways..why not attempt to help it? Taking it out of the hands of the pet store would be a first step, getting proper care/treatment would be the next. Yes, I know the animal died anyways, but at least that an attempt was made to save it from the hospitable pet store conditions...

Just my opinion... wanna flame me????

Please look up the word, ignorant, it means to not know, have no knowledge of. Its not a degrading term. Its simply lack of knowledge or awareness.

Hopefully in the context of this thread with Clint. The word, ignorant, means he was not aware or had knowledge that giving solid food was detrimental to the progress of that individual monitor. So the reality of my post is, ignorant is the best possible description. If he was not ignorant, that means he had knowledge that solid food was delerious, that means he did something stupid or worse. If he had knowledge that it was delerious, then its stupid. If he was not being stupid, knowing it was harmful, but forgot or did it anyway, then the word or term would be far worse, something like idiot.

I do not believe he is stupid or intended to harm the monitor, I believe he gave his best effort. He was simply ignorant that solid foods may cause harm. Do you dissagree, because if you do, then your saying Clint is stupid or worse.

I believe its very egotistical to think we are not all very very ignorant when it comes to animals and specifically monitors. All of us are, so it should not be a shock to hear the word ignorant when it comes to monitors. If that bothers you, then you must be very egotistical. It surely does not bother me.

One great herper(Joseph Laslow) once said to another great herper(Ernie Poo Wagner), if ignorance was pain, you would be screaming. Well, we are all screaming.

About petshops. You are painting a sweeping picture, when you mention petshops, as if they are all bad. I will mention, petshops are like all other walks of life, there are great ones, good ones and poor ones, also horrible ones. Much like the people who keep monitors.

I will also mention that, a very good friend of mine had a very nice shop and actually bred/nested/hatched blacktrees, in the shop, in a normal cage. Hmmmmmm how rare.

It seems you like many others, like to play games. You know, by pointing out, you do not condone the word ignorant or ignorance. Which insinuates that I enjoy telling people they are ignorant. I don't, but that does not make us not ignorant. We are, all of us.

Now Bob, you seem like a very smart fella, yet you are just learning about keeping monitors. You are at the very start of a long journey(if you stick with it) Bottom of the mountain, looking up, so to speak. So, what does that make you? You know, in the ways of keeping monitors, Does it make u stupid? and an idiot? or does it make you, naive? or better yet, ignorant? Your to be described as something. How else can I explain you? or how do you explain you?

You and I and all the other keepers, must be something? as bad as we are at keeping monitors, the very best description would be ignorant. Maybe naive too. But if we are not that, what are you calling us?? Stupid or idiots??? how rude of you. Cheers FR

you are the bomb. cheers.
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Ignorance in this case was not bliss, thanx for seeing the bigger picture Bob. By the way FR as I'm sure you'll read this, I don't look down on anyone as I have more than enough improvements in my own life to work on. If one is selling/ dealing in life they should be taking it upon themselves to know as much as possible about the life they are selling. It's not all petstores either, as the majority of the stores in my area are at least well maintained. This just happens to be one of those which are a death camp. This guy should not be allowed to keep much less sell life. Truly deplorable. Clint

You said, I found a sav. at a local petstore (death camp) that was in worse condition than that. I explained to the owner his deplorable conditions, and pretty much strong armed the monitor from him. He gave me the ole', I don' know what happened it just stopped eating a few months ago. It looked to me like the animal hadn't eaten in a year.

The words, death camp, worse condition, deplorable, hadn't eaten in a year, and that you strong armed him. Pretty much gave me the idea, that you looked down upon him/that shop. Or am I just being sensitive?

I still say, there are all levels of pet/reptile shops, using the good ones and not using the bad ones, sounds like a step in the right direction. But again, what do I know.

Funny how what we write does not reflect what we are thinking?

Again the meat of the thread to me is, what you did to that monitor.

I still believe, your first thought should have been to take it to a good vet. Or turn that shop into some dang agency or another, either way, get that monitor help.

Please forgive me and my barbaric ways, but, I feel to rescue anything is the result(as in rescued,past tense), not the attempt. I am sensitive about this rescuing deal. The subject of the rescue, must, survive, be alive and healthy, lead a productive life, etc, for it to be a rescue. Simply moving the monitor from one place to another is not rescuing. Is it?

Your attempt to rescue, was in reality, taking from the pot and putting it in the pan. But I realize I have the advantage of hindsight. If the monitor survived, then I would have nothing to say but, great job. Thats the way of hindsight and such things.

So in hindsight I should have said, good job on the attempted rescue, but you should have, bla, bla, bla, all the above.

At least with the Vet, any failure would be their fault. hahahahahahahaha Cheers, FR

1.I felt nothing for the owner of said store, I just felt sorry for the sav. 2.To be honest thats the only petstore in 15 miles, and for a dozen crickets I'll stop in there. 3.Lastly Frank, rescued is your words I just made a feable attempt at easing its suffering. 4.Don't you have anything better to do than rub salt in my wounds, and sling various assumptions as to my feelings about a store owner, rescue attempts and how far I should drive for a dozen crickets. Clint

1.I am not sure i have anything better to do, obviously I don't.

2. I am not rubbing salt into anything. Are you wounded? Lets see? Its about discussion, what did you think people were going to say? What were you hoping for?

3. Because I did not say what you wanted or thought people/I should say, I am the bad guy? I am not.

You know you are making this really cillie, I mean silly, all this is about is,

1. Use a vet to assist in a rescue.
2. Rehydrate, re-electrolyte, then re-nourish. Do not feed items that need digesting until the monitor is strong enough.

The fact that you want to make this about me is odd. I imagine if you really cared, your concern would be about numbers 1&2. Why don't you follow some discussion of how to rescue a sick monitor, instead of worrying about your salty wounds?

You see, a real benefit of your experience would be to learn how to save a sick monitor, instead of worrying about how you feel. Come on man, make this worthwhile.

Besides, if you don't I will turn this monster on you. FR

I myself should never been forced to put myself in that position, as a petstore owner I feel its there responsibility to know the care and health requirements of the animals they are getting fat off of. This guy is admittedly incompetant as the most basic care of the herps he is selling. He's got a couple of caimens in a tank with no heater or any access to dry land, oh, but on the bright side he has a pump circulating the water. On a personal note I'm a self employed mason contractor, it wasn't the most productive of early winters and it got cold quick, hence a lack of funds w/ xmas right around the corner. Had this not been the case I wouldn't have hessitated to see a vet. I admittedly dropped the ball, but not for lack of tring, that was the first animal in my care which died prematurly. Leave it to you, to twist a kind attempt into something else. If you would step back and look at the larger pic., you'd see an act which many would not have involved themselves in, or given a second thought to. Yes, my ignorance is astounding but aleast I see mine. Thanx for the feply, Clint

First read the above follow up.

I am stupid because, I know better, I am aware that trying to talk sense with some people is worthless. So yes, I am stupid. Actually I am a idiot, cause I keep trying. But I guess there are reasons people act in a stupid idiotic way, I guess one would be they care. Oh well, hate me cause I care. Thanks FR

I can claim that title on a number of subjects. I can also claim to have learned from my ignorance. That is the key.
If you make a mistake because of ignorance and keep making the same mistake, you are still ignorant. If you realize the mistake and make steps to correct it you are on the way to losing that ignorance.

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

Yeah but if you hear the advice and don't listen to it, ignore it, or are just to dumb to realize and apply it, then well..... you're just a freakin moron.

nah frank, maybe its just your approach. i mean it really doesn't matter though. we get free advice without having to pay for it (kind of like the local library without late fees). believe me, some do use it. those are the risks though with giving advice, some use it and some don't. but you know how to hedge a bet.

andrew

I think that the reason you cannot talk sense into anyone else is because you are the idiot.

And also, how could you be mad at someone for trying to save an animals life? Thats just wrong.

But I am not mad at him for anything. Why would I be. I get the feeling if you think its about being mad, then your with me as an idiot.

I hoped the discussion was about method, which he or you do not want to recognize.

To save something means you should have the knowledge and method to save something. Thats why I recomend he should have entertained taking the monitor to the vet. Then in hindsight, Bob and I mentioned that feeding solid food to a sick or dehydrated monitor is not the best approach. Detailed info above.

In the above posts I say that over and over. The real good part is, others will read this and they will understand, the best approach is to take the monitor to a Vet and to refrain from giving monitors solid food that do not have the ability to digest that food. Thanks for letting me say it again, FR

np