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I need to do some more reading ....

Ji_ Jul 29, 2004 09:45 PM

on genetics, Ive got a basic understanding dominant and recessive, homo x norm = 100% het, het x het = 25% homo,50% het 25% norm, ect, ect.

Codominant throws me off, and figuring outcomes of litters from DH animals.

But my main question is whats the deal with pastels? I noticed in the classifieds that someone breeding a pastel female to a normal male produced, obviously, pastels and normals ... but wouldnt the sibling normals born alongside the pastels be het for pastel?

And why were there any pastels produced from that litter in the first place, they should all be hets?

Im assuming that pastels are NOT a genetic mutation of some sort, just a strain of highly colored norms leading to only certain hatchlings having this trait?

Are Pastels are just brightly colored normals? I know Im missing something....

Much appreciated!!

Replies (9)

Ji_ Jul 29, 2004 09:53 PM

OOPS! Meant for the ball forum, geeze - Anyone want to take a swing anyway?

Ji_ Jul 29, 2004 10:00 PM

Suri female ...

Ji_ Jul 29, 2004 10:01 PM

:P

koky6869 Jul 30, 2004 07:50 PM

awsome snake !! i love those thin saddles !

Luke9815 Jul 29, 2004 10:47 PM

Pastels are hets for Super Pastel....
Super Pastel is the homo form of Pastel...so when a Super is bred to a normal....all are "hets".
-----
Luke Martin
Bronze Serpent Reptiles

Ji_ Jul 29, 2004 10:52 PM

Thanks for the input .. and makes sense, so basically a codominant trait is, well - just that, dominant enough to be visual in the animals that carry it but not dominant enough to appear in the entire litter/clutch??

Co-Dom, Hmmm - Im going to start looking for a good book on the subject.

Thanks for the input.

Ji

Paul Hollander Jul 30, 2004 12:47 PM

Codominant means that the influence of both genes can be seen in the heterozygote. Synonyms include incomplete dominant, partial dominant, semidominant, and a dozen other terms.

A ball python with two pastel genes shows the full expression of the mutant. AKA super pastel.

A ball python with a pastel gene paired with a normal gene is roughly intermediate in appearance between the normal and the super pastel. This snake is the heterozygous form (heterozygote), so don't pay big bucks for a "heterozygous pastel" that looks normal unless you are aching to throw money down a rat hole. And if you are that flush, send your excess cash to me.

A ball python with two normal genes looks normal. It does not possess a pastel mutant gene so cannot pass a pastel mutant gene to its progeny.

Mating a normal ball python to a pastel ball (with a pastel mutant gene paired with a normal gene) produces
1/2 normal babies (with two normal genes)
1/2 pastel babies (with a pastel mutant gene paired with a normal gene)

Clear as mud?

BTW, if you are looking for a genetics text, Schaum's Outline of Genetics in paperback is as good as any I've seen and less expensive than most.

Paul Hollander

Ji_ Jul 30, 2004 01:27 PM

Yup, yup - makes sense. Nerds genetics pages are pretty top-notch!

Much thanks - I appreciate it!

tmflyfish Jul 30, 2004 03:22 PM

I think your confusing some of these genetics terms.

I'll start out by saying that there are thousands of gene pairs in an organism, and each pair plays a role in that organisms characteristics. Each sperm and egg cell contains copies of half of these gene pairs, so that when sperm and egg combine, the resulting offspring receive half of their genes from the mother and half from the father. The pairing of these genes determine the genetic makeup (genotype) and appearance (phenotype) of the offspring.

Let's start with the basics. We'll get to co-dominance later.
Genes are either dominant or recessive, so for each gene pair, an offspring can have two dominant genes, two recessive genes, or one of each.

Homozygous, or homo, means that both genes received from the parents are the same, resulting in a trait in the offspring that is either homozygous dominant or homozygous recessive.

In regard to color and pattern morphs, Homozygous dominant traits are what we call normal (normal genetically and normal in appearance.)

Homozygous recessive traits are the ones seen in the different morphs (anerythristic, albino (amelanistic), axanthic, hypo(melanistic), striped, etc.) In this case, you can tell a snake's genotype from it's phenotype. You know that an albino is homozygous recessive for albinism.

Heterozygous, hetero, or het, means that the genes from the parents are different, so the offspring has one dominant gene and one recessive gene. The result is that the snake's phenotype, or appearance, is normal (hence the term dominant). However, it carries the recessive gene and can pass it on to its offspring.

This is where things can get confusing. Homozygous dominant gene pairs and heterozygous gene pairs result in the same appearance, but different genotypes. That is why in certain breedings, you can end up with, say, 20 babies...5 albinos and 15 babies that look normal, but 10 of them might actually carry the recessive gene for albinism. All 15 of the normal looking babies would be sold as 66% possible hets because there is no way of knowing which are normal and which are hets.

The exception to the homo-dominant/hetero confusion is co-dominance. In traits that are co-dominant, each parental gene is expressed in the offspring's appearance. Instead of having three different possibilities of genotype and only two resulting appearances, you would still have three different possibilities of genotype, but with three corresponding appearances. For example, pastel is a co-dominant trait. If the homozygous dominant results in normal looking appearance, than heterozygous would result in pastel, and homozygous recessive would result in super pastel. So like someone said earlier, pastel is just the heterozygous expression of super pastel.

I hope this helps explain things.

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