Reptile & Amphibian Forums

im bored so i figured i say something. for the last year or two, as far as i know, maybe longer, there has been much talk about banning reptiles as pets. the roots causes are iguanas, and giant snakes, they're so popular, but most have horrible lives. also, there is a few people killed every year by there giant snakes, usually the tamest of all, burms. even a 9ft snake can kill a full grown human. though, every case has been 100% human error. one example was the family who's son got killed by their FREE ROAMING 9' burmese python. what IDIOT lets a burmese python roam freely in their home. salmonella is another big reason, but i feel its insignifigant. stuff like the mistreating of animals makes me want the banning, but, i LOVE my reptiles. i wish they would do something though. i feel, anyone who loves there animals, should make a movement that you have to have some kind of license to keep any reptiles. that, i think, will keep those who aren't willing to go the extra mile from ruining some defensless reptiles. i hope that this thread gets a lot of debate.
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your head will collapse, but there's nothing in it, and you'll ask yourself, "where is my mind"

Giant snakes are not for everyone and no matter how tame they are , they are not pets! they are wild animals!! it is not the animals but the keepers!!! it is by human error that these accidents occur. ANY large constrictor should be maintained by a minmum of two people, present at all times. and by experienced keepers, whom have the means and space to take proper care of them and house them correctly. However many of us herpers do have the means and knowledge and experience to keep these animals, why should we be limited by others actions? because our society is built on the belief of guilt by association.... thats why it is soo important and the responsibility of each and everyone out there regardless you own a leopardgecko, turtle, monitor, large constrictor or even venomous animal to educate yourself, practice proper husbandry, clenliness, maintain records and practice safe responsible herp keeping.
i see leopard geckos the same way, they may not be dangerous to us like large constrictors and whatnot could be but not everyone should keep them, and as tame and cute as they may be are not a domesticated animal and essentially are wild, Anyone not able to properly house, feed and get them medical assistance as needed, shouldnt own them either. the actions of irresponsible,careless and uneducated herpers is what will cause us ALL to lose the right to own and keep these wonderful guys.
as far as the salmonella goes, i would be more worried about getting salmonela from working with raw poultry products than any turtle. if you gave me a choice i would prolly rather lick a turtle than a raw chicken =oP
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-robin day
Geckoheads And Geeks

np

"However many of us herpers do have the means and knowledge and experience to keep these animals, why should we be limited by others actions?" if by saying this your contradicting me, i think you missunderstood what i was saying. i think it would be good to have to have a license or permit to keep reptiles because those of us who do have the means and knowledge can easily get it. those who dont, well, they wont be able to get the chance to ruin a reptiles life. if they are in experienced but want to get into herps, this will make it so they have to research before they get them. i think this is a very good idea.
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your head will collapse, but there's nothing in it, and you'll ask yourself, "where is my mind"

I have worked around leos, anoles, snakes, amphibians, and turtles and not once have gotten sick (my leos even sit on my shoulders when I clean their cages). I also have three birds (which are also thought to carry higher concentrations of salmonella in their systems than mammals). And I do nuzzle the top of my bird's head with my nose sometimes (I don't kiss him though). I did a project on this for school, and I think it was something like 60% of store bought chicken had unusually high amounts of the salmonella bacteria on it and even when cooked had unhealthy amounts that were still active. While I don't kiss my reptiles, I am not afraid of them making me sick (I am more concerned about my fellow humans giving their colds to me!!!)

Cleo
1:1 leos...soon to be 1:5!!!

That would be cool to do, but it would be so hard to enforce, and a pet owning ban would have to include regular pets as well because so many more people (especially kids) are injured or killed by dogs. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for idiots not being allowed near herps, but the same arguement has been made for cats and dogs. Hell, there are a lot of people out there who should have a license in order to have kids for that matter.

Just like with the whole gun control arguement, it's the people that care about their pets who are going to go out and get a license, and the jerks who don't care about their critters will find a way to keep them anyway. That's all I'm getting at.

yes, ive thought about that too. having to have a license on dogs, or even kids, lol. it will never happen though. dogs are seen as family members, and herps arn't. in this case, it works in their favor. AND kids will definatly never happen, though i really wish it would. so many people waste there lives, why do we need to make more?
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your head will collapse, but there's nothing in it, and you'll ask yourself, "where is my mind"

I agree with what has already been said here. A reptile ban or permiting system would keep many good herpers from working with these animals we all love. The "bad keepers" would find a way to get a hold of the animals anyway. Personally, I don't see why any government employee should have the right to ban me from keeping my reticulated pythons or any of my animals or force me to be licensed to do so just because THEY THINK I am not capable. As herpers we should all stick together and do what we can to educate people about reptiles and amphibians and their proper care requirements. As reptile breeders it is extremely important that we are very picky about who we sell our animals to, especially in the case of large constrictors/crocodilians and venomous herps. WE need to police ourselves IMO, but we do not need some government agency telling us what we can and cannot do.
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Peace-
Kelli Hammack
H.I.S.S.
email me

Seriously, most of the accidents that happen with giant snakes are made by human error. We humans KNOW better than to let a 5 year old kid play with a 10 foot snake unsupervised....its ludicrous. And usually, the snakes aren't "attacking" the people!!! That tragedy with that young girl that happened last year kicked off the banning reptiles idea I think. First off, what parent would leave a little child alone in the house (she was pretty young)??? And as for her being "attacked", I still maintain the theory that snakes will ravel around a person's body if the person is not properly supporting their body. Since she was little, and the snake was heavy, I think that the snake raveled around her to support its massive weight and crushed the poor child in the process. I think the press uses extremely harsh language when it comes to accidents involving animals like snakes (ex: BRUTAL ATTACK, CHILD RAVAGED!). They make it seem like the animal was planning some violent attack (sorry, animals are not capable of a premeditated attack like humans are!). These animals are very powerful and these so called attacks are really accidents. And it is sad, but are they going to start banning dogs now because one dog goes crazy and bites some kid? I don't think so!!! I love my reptiles to death, and I think because they are reptiles, people tend to have a prejudice against them which is unfair in these circumstances. Basically, working with any animal has its risks (some are more risky than others). When you buy a pet, you are saying "I accept this responsibility and the risks that come with owning this pet" but if you make a mistake and someone gets hurt, do NOT punish the others that are responsible with their pets.

i don't understand how all of you think this would be a punishment. it would benefit the animals greatly if you had to have a permit to keep herps, because it would keep the people who cannot care for them out of it. i mean, if your saying its a punishment that you have to get a permit to keep your herps, when it assures that all captive herps will be properly cared for, i think that is just laziness. how hard would this permit be to get? i doubt it could be too hard, especially for those of you who are very experienced. and as for it not stopping irresponsible from getting them, i think it would. where would they buy them? i doubt there is going to be a leopard gecko black market, if there is a reptile black market, i dont know, im sure they wouldn't be selling the run of the mill animals. most of them would probably be rare or dangerous, wild caught, and very expensive.
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your head will collapse, but there's nothing in it, and you'll ask yourself, "where is my mind"

But to get a permit for smaller herps, all you really have to do is buy it. Its not like a drivers permit where they make you take a test and all that. So even the majority of bad keepers would shell out a few bucks to keep animals. I just don't see how it would prevent bad keepers from getting herps. Hey, even driving permits and licenses don't keep bad drivers off the road and its harder to get those kinds of things than it would be to get a permit to own a reptile. I can see where you are coming from, but irresponsible owners who think they know what they are doing will probably not hesitate to get a permit and the neglect and accidents will continue anyway.

Cleo
1:1 leos...soon to be 1:5!!!

why couldn't there be a test? are you suggesting that because you just buy a fishing license with out a test, thats how it'd be with the reptiles? i think if that was the case, then yes, it is a total waste, but if the permit actually had restrictions on who could get one, then it greatly benefits all herps.
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your head will collapse, but there's nothing in it, and you'll ask yourself, "where is my mind"

To pay up money to establish a course or test for a reptile permit (considering, sadly, we herpers are the minority here). It would need funding to make this National test. And you would also have to get the pet stores' consent (they may not like the idea that they can only sell reptiles to people with permits). It is a great idea, but sadly, I don't think alot of people care enough to go through this trouble. We do, of course, but for people who don't give a hoot about herpers and their beloved pets, it is easier just to ban the keeping of reptiles all together. Actually, I don't think they will ban them, because if they did there would be lots of protests not just from individual keepers, but from pet stores, herpetological societies, different dealers and breeders, etc etc.

Cleo
1:1 leos...soon to be 1:5!!!

I like the idea of having a test to get the license, but people just wouldnt go for that. Like cleopatra said, petstores wouldnt like only selling to people with a permit or license. Though its a great idea, think about it. If somebody sees a snake they want at a petstore, they're gunna wanna buy it. If they're told they cant buy it without a permit, then they're gunna DO RESEARCH and get the permit for that reptile. This would be a great system and i agree with you iluvblackfrancis, but unfortunetly it probably will never happen. Later