Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Can someone explain the northern pine snake's historical breeding bloodline. For example, when someone says they have hatchlings from the Ginter or Meltzer bloodline, what does that ACTUALLY mean for the quality of the snake in terms of its genetic history?

I researched many breeders from Florida to California and seen these two names mentioned. Are there any other breeding bloodlines, and is inbreeding a problem with snakes?

Thanks!

That is a good question and it really all boils down to this. There are certain breeders within the hobby such as myself that value the lineage of our animals. I personally keep over 200 pits of different kinds and when I am in the market for a specific animal, I usually buy it from a "known" breeder that I feel I can trust on the lineage of the animal. A personal quirk, yes it is. Do I sometimes pay a little more to buy an aniaml of known origin. Yes I do, but in the long run it is well worth it to me and I get the resuts I am after in a specific known look etc. .

Take for instance with Deppei Deppei, I have in the past bought animals not out of Limburg's several importation's and each time have been disappointed by the animals. So I only have his line of animals in my collection. Last year I bought some that had been brought in from Germany and after recieving the animals relized that they were not what I want in my collection. Nice animals, but not up to par with Randy's deppei deppei in my opinion.

That does not mean that small breeders do not produce and keep really good quality animals, because they do on a regular basis.

I am known for having numerous pits. of all types and hope that when folks see the name Cherryville Farms on an animal it makes it more desirable because people know my breeding practices and reputation in the hobby.

Likewise you mentioned two of the good guys in this hobby, in my collection I have animals from both John Ginter and John Metlzer. All good quality animals and worth every penny I paid for them. Both are known breeders that produce top quality animals.

Your next question is probally going to be why I say they produce "TOP QUALITY" animals. It is really simple, by having the ability to keep numerous animals the larger breeders have a larger gene pool with which to work. Thereby producing truly unrelated animals. Additionally when it come to color morphs ( albino, hypo, snow etc. ) most of the larger breeder out breed to wild caught or completely different bloodlined animals on a farly regular basis. Even though outbreeding is a long process( produce hets then prodcue offspring from the hets and then breed the morphs aniamls back into theline) it is something that is required to keep a strain viable and thereby again giving the purchaser of the animal a better quality animal.

Hope that helps explain my position on the deal and I hope it helps.

Cherryville Farms - Reptiles

but I would always try to go a little deeper and find out exactly what the history is of any specific line of herps you are looking into. acquiring. I personally have some of Ginter's line myself and another line that many smaller herpers have been maintaining of some impressive northerns not yet readily available. These guys provided me with some great history on their pines. Last season I spent QUITE sometime as well tracing many lines back to their source. As I always suggest to anyone interested in a partiuclar line, ask the source. Then check their source. A reputable source will always answer questions which in my opinion adds much to personal appreciation of your collection.

Best Regards, Rich Hebron

Thanks for the response. So I guess the name 'assures' a quality snake in terms of a proven genetic bloodline.

But the other question: Is in-breeding a problem with snakes? Is it taboo to breed two pits from the same clutch? For example, if I purchase pits from a trade show for breeding, should I get the male and female from different breeders (bloodlines)?

Thanks...I hope this makes sense!

Thanks for the response. So I guess the name 'assures' a quality snake in terms of a proven genetic bloodline.

But the other question: Is in-breeding a problem with snakes? Is it taboo to breed two pits from the same clutch? For example, if I purchase pits from a trade show for breeding, should I get the male and female from different breeders (bloodlines)?

Thanks...I hope this makes sense!

Yes, inbreeding has got to be bad, yet it is done all the time, where siblings are bought as a pair, and bred together. I think it's best, to buy animals that are not brother and sister. It depends on what your shooting for, for your choice of breeders. Try to stick to stuff that is locale specific, or perhaps you see the good in crossing two diff locales for genetic or color diversity. This situation I have with my Charleston locale corns. I have one pair. Both are siblings. I've bred them together for two seasons now, with no ill effect that I'd attribute to inbreeding. But they are from wild caught adults. Take my Best Okeetee female. Her babies are tiny, but great feeders. Are they tiny cause the bloodline has been inbred? Tough call, but I won't be holding two of her babies back to breed to each other...just in case! So to answer your question ,yes you can breed siblings, but were the parents already siblings? and how far has that been going on? Or even close relations? Could it be time to outcross to new blood? You, as the potential new breeder have choices to make! Good idea to look for unrelated animals. But like my Charlestons, kinda hard to find animals close to what I want to breed for, that would be unrelated. But if it's Northern Pines you'd like to pursue, there are indeed many breeders. But do ask lots of questions. How important are various qualities to you, such as locale, or perhaps color, size, attitude, ease of beginning feeding, ect... So it wasn't that the question was ignored...just perhaps not easily answered in a few words. Good luck in your quest, and do take your time, and settle for only what YOU want.

Thanks for your response! I guess my next post will be a list of necessary questions to ask breeders prior to each purchase