Reptile & Amphibian Forums

yo, recently my mice have given birth but im terrified of putting my hand back in the cage because the mice despise me and im wondering how i can get them to like me again. she had 14 babies and i i have to distract them by having them attack my finger in order to get a pinkie out

Put something else in to distract them(another body part) then you have both hands to grab pinkies.

I do imagine there are other possibilities too, good luck, FR

n/p

why do you insist on kissin someone's ass that dont like ya?

you have no idea who i am. frankly, you don't deserve a reply, there is no basis for respect. i have never kissed up to frank. i have said many times that frank is an arse, but he is a smart and funny one at the same time and laughs break up the monotony here, so i enjoy them. i am sure that it will be fun to have a beer or 5 with him and i am also sure that we will always disagree on some aspects. but it doesn't matter here.

best of luck,

andrew

I have seen the similar change in behavior in you, that happened with me. Once your here as long as I, you may most likely be much more of an arse, as I am a fairly forgiving one.

As far as being an arse, I wonder if the pain I may cause is anywere close to the pain we all cause the monitors. So, maybe we deserve it. Just a thought. FR

i have thicker skin than that, your posts don't pain me, perhaps sometimes my brain but i will understand in time.

cheers, andrew

ps: i have family that lives outside of daytona. i will probably be there next august for one reason or another. we can have some disagreements over a beer then, lol.

on top of that, it wasn't that funny

First, hes not kissing my arse. What he did I really respect. For all the differences of opinion, hes strong enough to laugh at something funny(no matter how funny it was)(so you only laugh at the funnyist of things, man what a dull person you must be) and it didn't matter if it was me.(so are you telling people what to laugh at and whats funny for them, oh my)

Then, I have to wonder where and why, you get that, I don't like Andrew thing???? I often dissagree with Andrew, but I have never met him, so I do not know if I like him or not. History is full of great friends/partners, that used to fight with eachother.

I am glad you are here to teach me the rules of what I should consider, as to whether I should like someone or not. You see, I was under the impression, I did not have to agree with someone in order to like them. I often do not agree with my friends or my wife. Oh man, should I divorce my wife because we disagree.

So are you saying before I laugh at any comedians jokes, I should decide whether I like them or possibly not like them. And what? not laugh if I do not agree with their beliefs??????? your ruining my day, dude.

I am sorry, but I laugh in your general direction(actually spit,pers. viewing, Monty python) as your being a silly person.

From a scientific view, I understand your viewpoint. If you consider, you probably "like" less then 1% of the people you meet, then accordingly, you like almost no one here. Cool and why should you? You are simply being normal. Good day, I said, good day! FR

actually Frank, I think it was, " I FaRt In Your General Direction"... but I picked up on the reference....Monty Python and the search for the holy grail..

But I didn't have to fart, I had to spit! I guess if you think about it, they are both degrading/insulting, or at least intended to be. thanks FR

i know you said good day and all,twice really, and one of them in red, but do you often disagree with him, or you often degrade him? i guess just a childish question, and sorry for spoil'n your day, oh wait a minute no i'm not.

Thats very interesting that, difference of opinion, can be thought of as degrading. But, whos doing the thinking, you or him? Or, one the hundreds of individuals here. All with different ideas of what degrading is and all with different opinions, how strange.

From an independant view, I would think it impossible to not agree/degrade or insult someone, when we all come for such diverse backgrounds and education/experience levels. Whats your thoughts on that?

I have always wondered, why is the possibility of being degraded/insulted or disagreed with, more important then the actual information about monitors? Your thoughts on that?

I have a few loose thoughts, I think people concentrate with "people things" because they do not have the ability(education/experience) to concentrate on things varanid. Your thoughts? Still a good day FR

I am glad you are here to teach me the rules of what I should consider, as to whether I should like
someone or not. You see, I was under the impression, I did not have to agree with someone in
order to like them. I often do not agree with my friends or my wife. Oh man, should I divorce my
wife because we disagree.

and i'm glad your here with your smart" as you say 'arse'" answer's to scare off people from asking questions

But i do have to ask,(because I am a ignorant/dumb/stupid/idiot) How do I scare someone? Was I silent, then yelled boo? Did I threaten them with bodily functions? Whoops, I mean harm? Or did I relate my thoughts/opinions in a way that made them feel they were stupid. Which is most commonly done by simply disagreeing. So, at times I disagree with someone. I think the point of these forums is to show many sides of any subject. Its not about right or wrong. Its about viewpoints. With a heated discussion, the readers have the right and should have the ability to pick the information that suits them. Discussions merely display views.

You must also understand, I rarely have discussions with beginers. I generally pick on the big boys, you know, ones with really strong differring opinions. I do so in hopes that some really good facts may surface. It really does not matter who's.

Please think about this, Its kinda impossible for me to SCARE someone off. Its really most likely, my imformation and how I support it(with pics) that scares them off. I imagine If I posted a pic of my ugly mug, then I would agree with you, that would surely scare off all but the strong.

To review, its not only the design of these forums, but the intention of these forums to express differring views. In doing so, you will always have opposing views. If one of the combatants unintentionally offends the other, it must be understood that its unintentional and not dwelled upon. But if they are doing what your doing, using the forum to call me names, well, normally that will be deleted. You see, thats against the rules.

You must also understand, if I am so stupid, and such an arse, then I am the luckyist dumb arse on the planet, cause I sure am going good with monitors, despite all my drawbacks(all the names you want me to be)

Even if you do not understand me, I surely understand you, you don't hate me because I've done so much with monitors(and share it with you all) you hate me because I am pretty and have such a nice bum. hahahahahahahahaha I suggest you stop thinking about me, but instead, spend that time thinking about you and how you are with your monitors. FR

That's not why, Frank. It's not about being ignorant, or even being an ignoramus. It's about being an ignoranus, someone who goes beyond not wanting to know anything different himself, to actively demanding that nobody else should know anything at all. And it's not about disagreeing, it's about being reviled by the substantial majority of people who know as much or more than you do. It's about being an ignoranus.

The readers of the monitor forums are the losers, when dozens of highly experienced hobbyists, zookeepers, and biologists refuse to post on these forums because your demagoguery disgusts them.

You do have experience, and sometimes that comes through. I appreciate that, but it is actually outweighed by your conduct.

the hay is going on?

PS Remember these?????

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0.0.1 Varanus Salvator (Gator)
0.1.3 Varanus Exanthematicus (Adisa "long term captive" other 3 "yet to be named hatchlings"
2.0 Ferrets (Chaos & Kasha)
1.0 Cat (George)

Because I know nothing, and you show nothing, I try to make it about a pictorial swordfight, only you don't own a sword.(get a sword)

In truth, words are of only so much use when we have real monitors. They are not a conglomerate of words, in captivity, they are a conglomerate of our actions(support/husbandry). I do not really "know" about monitors, but I do have lots of experience and pictorial events recorded about monitors. If you could help me understand, by showing me something tangible that would be great. But alas, its words and words are all you have, to take my brain away(Begees)Sorry but, words have proven to be very cheap, on forums.

Again, the monitors actions are much louder and clearer then your words. So show me, show me, show me. Whats the matter, cat got your camera?

About those mystical others, I am sorry their info is so easily intimidated, because I did not know it was about them(people)

Besides, when I do not post here for extented periods, the same kind of stuff happens, I am simply a place holder, but one with lots of pics that you cannot explain.

How are we so different, you say monitors do not live in groups, I say they do. Big deal

You say, monitors do not muli-clutch, our monitors routinely do, again big deal.

You say all monitors are solitary, ours show otherwise. more big deal.

I have raised generation, after generation, you have not. Oh my, thats the kicker, isn't it?

Whats very very funny is, my view and experience with monitors is of no harm to you. Your experience and view of monitors is of no harm to me. So I ask, why are you so concerned. My approach to monitors has been used and successful with many other keepers and yours has?????????????what is it by the way, you know, about captives.

Remember I have always been consistant with you and very scientific, that is, I ask you for proof(isn't that what science is), only we disagree with what proof is. I think monitors are proof and you think words are proof, great. Sorry I do not have lots of faith in words, not even mine. The monitors are constantly sharpening my view(correcting me). Why would I want to accept your words over their actions and events????? Really that sounds silly to me. To actually believe you over them. Yes, they have showed me a lot, but nothing from you.

For whats its worth, from the time we started to disagree, our monitors have hatched, grew up, bred, nested and hatched. Many different individuals and species. I am not sure what that means, but it means something. After all, that is the focus of captive forums, isn't it?

Call me crazy(you have) but isn't this a bit like algebra, you know, something like, 3x=27, The result of 3x is 27. One side equals the other, the problem with your information is its lacking results. If you showed results, and quality results, I would be a fan. But a formula without results is incomplete. I have nothing to judge what you say by. I am still waiting. FR

n/p

You're talking about being ignorant, then lashing out at someone in an ignorant fashion. Name calling? Come on sir, I would assume you're more intelligent than that.

Why can't you think what you want, let Frank think what he wants, I think what I want etc... If you have a different opinion on something on a particular thread, post it. If you have an inferiority complex, that doesn't allow you to be contradicted on a public forum (about fricking lizards!) then I strongly suggest re-evaluating your frame of mind and way of life. I am particularly tired of coming here to occasionally learn from people with a much more vast level of experience such as yourself or Frank only to see cheer leaders and nay sayers throw words back and forth.

If you're as intelligent and informed as you lead yourself to believe, you should be able to have a civil disagreement with someone without making an as$ out of yourself.

Sincerely,
Jordan Russell

np

In fact, you miss lots and lots of points.

The first point is, the forum is about the, keeping, breeding, health and conservation of monitors. Thats exactly what it says above. Its not Natural history of monitors or Academic interpitation of monitors. I do believe they have forums for both of those.

In practice, this is not a bunch of herp students, putting pencil to paper on your every word. It is as bunch of people(a class, comunity) that practice the keeping of monitors(and other reptiles/animals). This Class is not required to use or understand scientific or academic terminology. They have and use terminology particular to this class. I am of this class.

You may and should come here, but please understand, your value and your use here, is the keeping of your monitors. How you rate in this class is that, your keeping of monitors. Not the academics of monitors.

Yet, you do not talk about monitors(how it pertains to this class) you do not share, show pics or even explain what your monitors are doing.(which is the focus of this class) As far as I have experienced, you just tell people they are wrong without expressing what is right. Yea I know, you will say all these papers say this and that. But again, those papers are not for this class(private keepers)They are for your class, academic biologist. Amoung our discussions, you have clearly explained that none of the field work you do, or even others, is aimed or directed at the keeping of monitors, muchless, the keeping of monitors by private people.

Of course there are other Classes too, like the Zoo comunity. They too have their own rules and terminology. Their rules and language is great for them, they created it for them.

The point is, you do not make the rules for this comunity, the comunity does. You do not make the language for this comunity, again the comunity does. So please do not make the rules for this class/comunity or more importantly, me.

To waste more ink, I wonder, if I(any private person) ventured into the scientific comunity, wouldn't we be required to follow your rules and language? of course we would. And you call me names, your the one thats so egotistical, that you feel this comunity is to follow you, use your language, and believe in your beliefs. Simply put and you know I like simple things, your a fish out of water.

Please let me return to being me, our class is very simple(why I like it) If I or we, see monitors multi-clutching, and you say they don't, I/we, will not give a hoot what you said.

If I/we, see our monitors being social and you say they arn't, again, you lose. Please, its nothing personal. But you really should get this point. We SEE our monitors BEING social, and you tell us different. I hope its not just me, but I hope we all value what we see over what someone tells us.

More, If our monitors bond in pairs and we experience that, and that experience is benefitual for us and the monitors, why would we want to listen to you when you say that does not happen??????? That so confuses me.

Now if you would allow me to sink even lower. I somehow think there are many types of people(am I wrong here) and amoung these people, they have many with different gifts and talents(and experiences) Some are very good at keeping living animals, no matter what their education level is. Others are not. Some are good at collecting data, others are not. I ask, do we have to do both? HECK NO, hahahahahahahahahahaha.

I am so confused, you told me, you came to this forums to learn how we keep our monitors. I assume that means, how we have attained the success we have. Yes I know, assume. So Why, do you want to change me or folks of this class, when we are doing what you came to learn. If your purpose was to learn, then why tell us we are wrong.

I also understand all this typing is for nothing, because you have shown a history of avoiding this and concentrating on name calling.

So please, use your education and respond to the real questions, the ones about monitors, the monitors in our cages, because the reality is clear, our monitors are in our cages and we have no other options. Please understand this our monitors are in cages and we have no other option

Lastly, you say I do not learn, or want to learn, I learn all the time, only as I said, I learn from the monitors. They are the object of my love/interest/curiousity, not you. FR

ps. In an interview I read, the author was asking questions of this fella named Henry Lizardlover. They asked, so, you are an expert on iggies, Henry answered, no, but I have expert iggies. Thats what I am talking about.

Frank writes "So please, use your education and respond to the real questions, the ones about monitors, the monitors in our cages, because the reality is clear, our monitors are in our cages and we have no other options."

I do, Frank, and you're still missing the point. The ideas and information I provide here are also acquired by "asking the monitors", only these are real, wild monitors. I bet that I like them as well as you do.

Save your breath here; I will post something a little more substantive up top, as to why it matters and why I think you (and others) are missing the point.

I for one was looking forward to your participation on the forums when you first appeared. You had the perfect opportunity to take the high road and share your thoughts, instead you have ruined your credibility by whining.

You want me to pull up some of your garbage, Rich? There was a lot of it, back when I tried to educate your ignorant self.

Pull away. Not that it matters, I don't know much about monitors other than the ones that I keep in boxes.

Not sure what it has to do with your constant whining or lack of credibility, but if it save's you $'s on Prozac, have fun.
Just please don't e mail me again about the 100's of folks who have complained to you about Frank.

np

FR quote -> Good day, I said, good day!

Does this mean he doesn't get the lifetime supply of chocolate?

FR puts out a lot of good information and sometimes in a humurous way, and almost always answers peoples' questions when they are valid. I'm more of a reader than a poster, but I can see where he might get frustrated answering the same exact question over and over and over again.

For anyone who thinks someone else may have asked their question use the search function, its kept me from posting dozens of times.

If for some reason you can't find the word [ Search ] click anywhere on the browser window where there isn't a picture or a link then press tab forty-eight (48) times followed by the enter key (only once).

Or if you think my post is dumb and you decided to reply simply hold the Shift key and press Tab five (5) times and press enter (Don't forget to let go of shift before you hit enter or you'll start an intergalactic war because holding the shift key while a wormhole is open might accidentally insult an alien in a far off galaxy).

Search for something you need help with. If you don't have a good memory you can print it out too. Einstein always said why remember everything since its probably written in a book somewhere (paraphrase, not a direct quote).

Close the reply window.

That's what I do generally, and it has kept my post count nice and low.

Today's post has been sponsered by the word "Search" and the number 42.

~GK

ps. FR, do you give tours of your ranch? It may be something worth taking leave for. $

I just had my entertainment for today by reading this post. You guys are nuts!!! HAHA
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Ed

There are water dragons, chameleons, and monitors in my jungle room.

Personally I think its great that two people who often disagree can still respect each other as people and share a joke. It would be really great if they actually did disagree (or even agree) over a couple of beers and shared more jokes. Don't encourage them to argue the whole time even if it is entertaining reading.

>>yo, recently my mice have given birth but im terrified of putting my hand back in the cage because the mice despise me and im wondering how i can get them to like me again. she had 14 babies and i i have to distract them by having them attack my finger in order to get a pinkie out
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Sonya

Haven't we warned you about tampering with the structure of a chaotic system?
Mrs. Neutron