Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello all,

I normally try to feed my snakes a carefully weighed diet. For example - if my snake is due for a meal that should be about 1000 grams, I will opt to give him 600g and 400g prey items instead of a single 900g or 1100g item.

In using two smaller items I can more accurately dial into the weight of the meal he should get. I keep track of the total weight of each meal he eats so that I can gradually ramp it up over time as he grows. That way I can be sure I am not over or under feeding him (I'm a big fan of health/maintenance diets now).

This method allows me to stock up on frozen feeders without having a bunch that are too large or too small (as it is rare to find the 'ideal' prey size when I shop online for frozen feeders).

My question is this: is it preferrable to feed [a snake] a single prey item, or is it okay to feed a couple or few smaller prey items that equal the same final meal size?

Thanks for any input on this,
- Mark
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My personal site: www.antegy.com
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My Kingsnake.com Picture Gallery
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My photography on photo.net
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Me on myspace.com

Mark, I could see where that would be necessary since the original ancestors of your animals use to preweigh their kills before eating. Of particular importance is to be sure you accurately measure how many calories your animals burn while working out on the treadmill lol. Honestly, how do you know exactly what size prey should be fed and when?

Very funny, very funny.

I know - I can see how it seems that I'm being overly anal about this, but it's just the best way for me to 1) be comfortable that I'm feeding my pets appropriately sized meals, and 2) prevent wasting money on prey items that are just too large.

As for knowing exactly what size meal they should get - I don't know 'exactly'. I do know 'relatively'. That is, I'm banking on the simple logic that as they grow larger their meals should get proportionately larger.

I'm open to suggestions on that if anyone has a better approach.
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>>Mark, I could see where that would be necessary since the original ancestors of your animals use to preweigh their kills before eating. Of particular importance is to be sure you accurately measure how many calories your animals burn while working out on the treadmill lol. Honestly, how do you know exactly what size prey should be fed and when?

I think your going to have to use your own knowledge on that one. If you look at your records(which I'm guessing are also pretty detailed given the way you feed) you should be able to ascertain growth rates, rate of digestion, etc. Take two similar animals in regards to age/size/etc. and start feeding one the larger single prey items, and the other the multiple prey items, and get a general idea that way. When I feed two prey items, it is generally only because I may be down to say only small rats when a certain snake generally feeds on mediums and I'll go with two prey items to make up the difference. You may also feed at a rate too frequently which along with higher temps. may increase the metabolic rate, increasing digestion times, and causing the animal to basically eat and poop, and not put on much weight. In humans, low activity over eaters gain mass quickly even with quality meals, while active people who eat more frequently will stay very thin(for example). In the end with raising siblings from my own litters, knowing the animals entire background and watching one grow twice as fast, I'm at the point that I feel growth rates, and proper feeding schedules are almost independent to each individual animal. Good luck on your search for a final answer, and be sure to update us with anything you find. Take care!

Paul

Your intentions sound great =)
But man thats a little much for me. But hey... everyone has their own way of doing things.. HEHE

Anywhoo... as far as the whole multiple prey. I myself will sometimes feed 2 smaller ones over 1 large one. I do not see anything wrong with this. One time I had taken my snakes to a vet (not my normal one), and had inquired about feeding multiple prey... he stated that it was better try and stick with 1 over multiple. His explanation was that with multiple prey in the gut.. the snake will digest the first one he/she had eaten and would then start to work on the ones after. If it takes the snake longer to break down the first one.. then the next would just be sittin in there getting nasty.

I have not had any problems giving multiple prey, however, I do try to stick with just 1.

>>Hello all,
>>
>>I normally try to feed my snakes a carefully weighed diet. For example - if my snake is due for a meal that should be about 1000 grams, I will opt to give him 600g and 400g prey items instead of a single 900g or 1100g item.
>>
>>In using two smaller items I can more accurately dial into the weight of the meal he should get. I keep track of the total weight of each meal he eats so that I can gradually ramp it up over time as he grows. That way I can be sure I am not over or under feeding him (I'm a big fan of health/maintenance diets now).
>>
>>This method allows me to stock up on frozen feeders without having a bunch that are too large or too small (as it is rare to find the 'ideal' prey size when I shop online for frozen feeders).
>>
>>My question is this: is it preferrable to feed [a snake] a single prey item, or is it okay to feed a couple or few smaller prey items that equal the same final meal size?
>>
>>Thanks for any input on this,
>>- Mark
>>.
>>-----
>>----------------------------------------------
>>My personal site: www.antegy.com
>>----------------------------------------------
>>My Kingsnake.com Picture Gallery
>>----------------------------------------------
>>My photography on photo.net
>>----------------------------------------------
>>Me on myspace.com

Vets I've talked to say it is better to feed multiple smaller prey versus 1 larger one. Something about making it easier on the digestive system - able to digest quicker, less surface area....I can't remember exactly.
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1.0 Ball Python "Aragorn"
1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa "Gimli"
1.0 Saharan Sand Boa "Frodo"
0.1 Rough-Scale Sand Boa "Arwen"
0.1 California Kingsnake "Gentoo"
1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Indigo"
1.0 Snow Corn snake "Chile"

0.0.1 Crested Gecko

0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer
"Kira"

I'm not sure that the advice of the vet in the previous post is very reasonable (though quite plausible). The advice of the vets you talked to seem to make more sense (from a phisiological perspective).

Thanks,
- Mark

>>Vets I've talked to say it is better to feed multiple smaller prey versus 1 larger one. Something about making it easier on the digestive system - able to digest quicker, less surface area....I can't remember exactly.
>>-----
>> Check Out My Albums
>>
>>1.0 Ball Python "Aragorn"
>>1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa "Gimli"
>>1.0 Saharan Sand Boa "Frodo"
>>0.1 Rough-Scale Sand Boa "Arwen"
>>0.1 California Kingsnake "Gentoo"
>>1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake "Indigo"
>>1.0 Snow Corn snake "Chile"
>>
>>0.0.1 Crested Gecko
>>
>>0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer
>>"Kira"

I weigh prey for my animals too. Hey, gotta justify the $40 scale. One thing I have learned is the vast differences sometimes when say...you move from mice to rats. Maybe it is a bit too OCD but I like having the references. Especially now that I have too many animals to remember if one took a larger than average the time before he bloated etc. Okay, so I am anal too.

I would rather start a snake going on two smaller prey then suddenly onto a larger. I tend to move them up gradually the same way you are describing.
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Sonya

Haven't we warned you about tampering with the structure of a chaotic system?
Mrs. Neutron

Mark, I've always thought feeding a large boa smaller prey
items,such as a large rat weekly or every ten days to a collosal rat once a month is healthier for your snake.That's what I've been doing and noticed large increase in weight for my female B.C.C.I think a 4 pound rat wether it be two small ones or 1 large rat is still 4 pounds of rat meat.It's prey size(l lrg rat) to frequency of feedings(every week,ten days,two weeks,monthly etc..,rather than prey size(2sm rats) to prey size(1 jumbo rat)per feeding.I have read this is more natural in the wild to eat a rat,then a week latter eat a bird etc...GOOD LUCK .by the way great looking boa, man,and your sis aint to bad eather.

serht
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Jim Hopkins "Hoppy"
Hopkins Holesale Herps
Hopfam1@aol.com

I love discussing feeding opinions.

I keep snakes that run the range of swallowing capacity. Some of the snakes I keep must be fed small meals 2 times a week. Some need 6 meals a year.

When it comes to feeding adult boas, I believe feeding 1 prey item that is near it's swallowing capacity, then not feeding the snake for a long time is best.

Feeding multiple items creates a situation where the snake will have to work hard to wrap to hold, then swallow an item while it already has a somewhat distended gut. I don't think this is any huge problem, really no problem at all if the 2 items don't add up to a big meal. If the 2 items combined are approaching the feeding capacity of the boa, there may be some risk of trauma.

But all things considered, it's mostly just worry wasted. Just feed off the smaller meals then order the next size. Your snake will be fine going a while without a meal anyway.

Hoping to be helpful,

Doug T

>>Hello all,
>>
>>I normally try to feed my snakes a carefully weighed diet. For example - if my snake is due for a meal that should be about 1000 grams, I will opt to give him 600g and 400g prey items instead of a single 900g or 1100g item.
>>
>>In using two smaller items I can more accurately dial into the weight of the meal he should get. I keep track of the total weight of each meal he eats so that I can gradually ramp it up over time as he grows. That way I can be sure I am not over or under feeding him (I'm a big fan of health/maintenance diets now).
>>
>>This method allows me to stock up on frozen feeders without having a bunch that are too large or too small (as it is rare to find the 'ideal' prey size when I shop online for frozen feeders).
>>
>>My question is this: is it preferrable to feed [a snake] a single prey item, or is it okay to feed a couple or few smaller prey items that equal the same final meal size?
>>
>>Thanks for any input on this,
>>- Mark
>>.
>>-----
>>----------------------------------------------
>>My personal site: www.antegy.com
>>----------------------------------------------
>>My Kingsnake.com Picture Gallery
>>----------------------------------------------
>>My photography on photo.net
>>----------------------------------------------
>>Me on myspace.com

Now I am really feeling old school now, but here are my thoughts on this. First I have never put that much effort into feeding the snakes. I feed them what I pull out of the freezer, big rats for big snakes medium rats for medium snakes and small rats for small snakes, I was never very good at the metric system anyway but basic knowledge and information would tell me a few things…..
Two smaller prey items, weighing in at 1000 grams would mean more of the weight is in the fur and in the skin (the fattier section of the rodent) two smaller rodents have a greater surface to inner ratio then one larger prey item. So the one larger prey Item should have more protein and vitamins gram for gram. Further more and snake would expend more effort and energy eating to smaller meals then one larger meal, having to use the muscles to constrict swallow and push the meal down twice instead of once for the bigger meal. that would mean that the snake has to use more of the energy of the meal to eat the meal, which means now you should be compensating for the difference in the caloric intake 9if you are going to go to the effort to weigh out the meal that is)
I will use a vitamin supplement a few times per year just to ensure a good breeding health, but I have never gone into that much detail on the feeding end of it.
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Jim Hopkins "Hoppy"
Hopkins Holesale Herps
Hopfam1@aol.com

Since I'm new to breeding,what kind of vitamins do you use or suggest?Thank you.

What I am currently using is NutriBac df. This one is to help replenish benifical bacteria in the interstines, but I will switch it up with others two. A multi Vitamin dust or anything along those lines. I switch it up so that they can get benifits from all, I dip the rear end of the rodent into the dust and feed them. I really can't say if it makes a difference or not, but my snakes are healthy, so I keep doing it.
Thanks
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Jim Hopkins "Hoppy"
Hopkins Holesale Herps
Hopfam1@aol.com