Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone have any idea where I might be able to find and purchase a Parson's chameleon? Website???
Thank you...

>>Does anyone have any idea where I might be able to find and purchase a Parson's chameleon? Website???
>>Thank you...

You can't just go to a website and buy a parsonii. Very few people have them and you can count the number on one hand who have clutches of babies at any time. They are very careful about who they sell them too. Since you made it very clear in your thread on Friday that you are looking for parsonii and ambilobe pardalis because they are the most expensive chameleons and you are looking to breed them to make money, you are going to run into other parsonii keepers, like myself, who will make sure that if they have anything to do with it, you will be the last person to get any of these animals. These animals are not the type of animals for someone who obviously has little chameleon experience to play with in a get rich quick mentality.
My 2 cents

Chris
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Chris Anderson
parsonii_hoehnelii@hotmail.com
Editor - Chameleons! Online E-zine: http://www.chameleonnews.com/
Admin - Captive Chameleon Bloodline Tracking Database (CCBTD): http://www.chameleondatabase.com/
Author - Chameleon Care and Information Center (CCIC) - http://www.geocities.com/ccicenter/(Currently Down)

Thanks for your 2 cents

I love chameleons, have 4 of them right now- I breed them, but they are also my pets that I have had for over 5 years, that I love and cherish. Excuse me for wanting to know a little more about ambilobe's and parson's, not only because I'm interested in them, but because, they are beautiful creatures. Anyone who says that they aren't breeding (any kind) chameleons for the money (even a little) are lying! If that were the case, then they would give them away for free- and I haven't seen any free chameleons lately, have you?

I think the reason why you don't see free chameleons is that the cost to keep and breed them is pretty high. Most people sell them to recover the initial cost. But when it comes to a successful breeding program, I think profit should be the last thing on your mind. Your first priority should be figuring out whether or not you have the resources to successfully execute a breeding program. This includes both time and money. With species of chameleons you are interested in, there is very little room for error.

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Farrah & Vincent
Email: Screameleons@yahoo.com
Phone: (571) 437-0642
Website: http://www.Screameleons.com

I know that it costs alot of money, and takes alot of time to breed chameleons. Like I said in my prior message, I have been working with and breeding my chameleons for a little over 5 years, so I know that I have the time and finances to breed the species that I am interested in as well. I don't understand why everyone is getting so mad at me for wanting to breed chameleons. I'm just interested in breeding a new species that I haven't worked with before, so I was asking an innocent question, as to how much people usually get for them in pet stores. Not only for my breeding purposes, but for my purchasing purposes as well. I don't feel I need to defend myself any longer. This will be the last time I visit kingsnake.com

My post was not an attack on you. Just sharing some insight on some things you will encounter when breeding delicate animals. I apologize if I've offended you.

Vincent

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Farrah & Vincent
Email: Screameleons@yahoo.com
Phone: (571) 437-0642
Website: http://www.Screameleons.com

I apologize also, for going "off" on you. It wasn't my intention. I'm just having a hard time understanding why so many people are getting so angry at me for wanting to breed chameleons. It wasn't you. I'm sorry.

We're not mad at you. We are skeptical because this is primarily a hobbyist forum and many of us rescued sick animals from sellers who had no appreciation for or interest in the animal, just the money. We don't know you yet, and by starting off immediately with cost/selling price/profit questions you set yourself up to be received as "money first". We've seen the first time posters to this forum who wanted to make their fortunes with Parson's chameleons before...it hardly ever works out that way. Those who care about chams post on forums...that's why they exist. It is all about impressions after all. If your initial questions were expressed differently the reaction would probably have been totally different.

Well, thank you for your understanding. I swear I'm not all about the money. I guess I may have made it seem that way though. Like I have said before- I breed chams too, and I love them. They are the most amazing creatures alive, in my opinion. And when I would go to sell the babies, I was very careful who I sold them to- and that they knew all the info they needed to, in order to provide their new pet with everything they need to be happy and healthy. To anyone I may have offended, I apologoze.

the cost of raising them? are you serious?! what all goes into the cost? electricity,caging,food,plants, what else. I think 400 is fricking rediculous, I could by a dog for that much, which cost 5 times as much to keep.

Where did $400 come from? Last time I checked, a healthy subadult Parsonii was around $2,600.

Why are they so much...hmmm
just kidding

>>I love chameleons, have 4 of them right now- I breed them, but they are also my pets that I have had for over 5 years, that I love and cherish. Excuse me for wanting to know a little more about ambilobe's and parson's, not only because I'm interested in them, but because, they are beautiful creatures. Anyone who says that they aren't breeding (any kind) chameleons for the money (even a little) are lying! If that were the case, then they would give them away for free- and I haven't seen any free chameleons lately, have you?

Your posts have been completely in regard to monetary value and sales value of these animals. You have not shown any knowledge of parsonii nor any appreciation for them. What species do you have that you are breeding? Very few people have ever been able to breed parsonii and it isn't because they are not trying and have not bred DOZENS of chameleon species before. It is because they are a difficult species to maintain long term, difficult to breed, extremely time consuming and very very difficult to incubate. Breeding your 4 chameleons doesn't qualify you to take on one of the rarest and most difficult species to breed around. These animals are far too rare and valuable for someone to be playing around with in the goal of making money, if doesn't happen like that with parsonii! As for breeding not to make money, I don't breed to make money. I currently have thousands of dollars worth of reptiles and to be honest, most cost me next to nothing when you look at what they cost in petstores and on classifieds. That is because I work with breeders on breeding these animals and having a stable breeding population, not to make money. Parsonii are a species that should never be in the hands of anyone who is trying to make a buck by them and not in the hands of anyone but the most experienced keepers and breeders, they are far to valuable (not talking about money value, FYI).

Chris
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Chris Anderson
parsonii_hoehnelii@hotmail.com
Editor - Chameleons! Online E-zine: http://www.chameleonnews.com/
Admin - Captive Chameleon Bloodline Tracking Database (CCBTD): http://www.chameleondatabase.com/
Author - Chameleon Care and Information Center (CCIC) - http://www.geocities.com/ccicenter/(Currently Down)

At the risk of continuing an arguement (oops i said it again)
I am just curious as to why they are being sold for so much
to the public is it because they are rare? on the cites list?
or the 18 month hatch and the problems getting them to breed?
or maybe a mixture of all?, Or could it be that if someone spends $2500 on a lizard they would be more inclined to take care of it?
I.M.O. I would rather have a Blue Bar Ambilobe then a Parsons,
I'm sure there are other oppinions, I just dont see the appeal
I also beleive that NO ONE should breed Chameleons for the money, I.M.O. it leads to spoiled bloodlines! (not a prop just my oppinion....lol)And in the panthers case, passing one panther for another!Shoot i,m not even sure if a Ambilobe is an Ambilobe most of the time!!!And why they cost so much!As opposed to a different Panther!But i guess THE IDEA OF MONEY will drive some people to do things differently
And i whole heartly agree with breeding chameleons to ensure their survivel, but i think i'll leave that to others in the parsons case...for now...lol
P.S.How do you spell survivel?
Disclaimer ; This post wasnt to attack anyone just my two cents
If i offended anyone i appologize in advance for grammar and or content!

Parsons cost $2,600 Because they are hard to obtain They are no longer imported from madagascar and they have a low reproductive rate and there is a large demand for them. Low supply and high demand create a sellers market and contrary to what some people out there want to tell you, most people are looking to get monetary gain from breeding Parson's. If they weren't you would never hear about parsons for sale at all. Prehensile tailed skinks have a much lower reproductive rate than do Parson's yet when Importation on them stopped even though the high and mighty tried to raise prices on them(from less than $100 to about$900)they never could get the higher prices It all has to do with demand. Back when Parson's were readily available, not only were they cheap (I paid $110 for my male from a jobber and $169 for my female from a reptile store in Ky. many years ago.) but many people were afraid to keep them because people thought they were difficult animals to maintain which is totally false. I know of a retired reptile dealer in S. Fl. who once told me that he once had his wharehouse full of Parson's for $35 each (Wholesale) and nobody wanted them. What has happened now is somewhat of a forbidden fruit mentality (first dang story in the bible teaches us "prohibition doesen't work".)Nobody can get them so everybody wants them. Pesonally I found with my experience with Parson's that they are extremely easy to keep compared to a lot of other reptiles out there (Including several species of currently kept chameleons.) They are also one of the most rewarding species of reptiles to keep. It would be a toss up between them and water monitors as to which is my favorite lizard.

Thank you for posting your veiw,You make a good point!
I got one more question,Has anyone that you know of bought a Parsons Chameleon for $2600 ?
If so ask them if they want to buy a bridge?
Just kidding 'bout the bridge...

>>At the risk of continuing an arguement (oops i said it again)
>>I am just curious as to why they are being sold for so much
>>to the public is it because they are rare? on the cites list?
>>or the 18 month hatch and the problems getting them to breed?
>>or maybe a mixture of all?, Or could it be that if someone spends $2500 on a lizard they would be more inclined to take care of it?
>>I.M.O. I would rather have a Blue Bar Ambilobe then a Parsons,
>>I'm sure there are other oppinions, I just dont see the appeal
>>I also beleive that NO ONE should breed Chameleons for the money, I.M.O. it leads to spoiled bloodlines! (not a prop just my oppinion....lol)And in the panthers case, passing one panther for another!Shoot i,m not even sure if a Ambilobe is an Ambilobe most of the time!!!And why they cost so much!As opposed to a different Panther!But i guess THE IDEA OF MONEY will drive some people to do things differently
>>And i whole heartly agree with breeding chameleons to ensure their survivel, but i think i'll leave that to others in the parsons case...for now...lol
>>P.S.How do you spell survivel?
>>Disclaimer ; This post wasnt to attack anyone just my two cents
>>If i offended anyone i appologize in advance for grammar and or content!

C. parsonii are that expensive for a number of reasons. To start with, they have not been legally exported from Madagascar since 1995 when CITES put out a recommendation to the parties to suspend trade in all Malagasy Calumma and Furcifer species with the exception of F. pardalis, F. oustaleti, F. lateralis and F. verrucosus. Prior to the export ban,from 1986-1996 to be exact, 17,712 C. parsonii were exported from Madagascar accroding to the CITES World Conservation Monitoring Centre. Resent published data estimates that there are approximately
100 WC C. p. parsonii currently alive in captivity outside of Madagascar (that was two years ago so that number is even lower now) that were imported prior to CITES recommending their exportation be ceased in 1995 (Abate, Ardi (2002): CHAMELEONS in Context. Chameleon information Network, 45: 26-38). Of all those animals imported, few survived to 1998. In addition to that, only about 300 babies have ever been hatched outside of Madagascar (thats a generous estimate). Of those, not all survived nearly as long as they should have. The first F2 clutches have just recently started to appear as this species takes 2-3 years to reach sexual maturity and another 2 years before the females lay eggs and the eggs hatch. These animals have a very poor survival record in captivity and a very poor reproductive success. Many parsonii clutches go full term and the babies suddenly die in the eggs. In addition to their rarity, poor reproductive status and poor history in the trade, this is the largest of the chameleons with males reaching 900 grams and lengths over 30". Furthermore, they have been shown to have a life expectancy of upwards of 20 years in proper care. While in the proper environment they can do very well, they are prone to a number of disorders that usually lead to death. Needless to say, only very experienced keepers should attempt to work with this species and it should never be to make money.

Chris
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Chris Anderson
parsonii_hoehnelii@hotmail.com
Editor - Chameleons! Online E-zine: http://www.chameleonnews.com/
Admin - Captive Chameleon Bloodline Tracking Database (CCBTD): http://www.chameleondatabase.com/
Author - Chameleon Care and Information Center (CCIC) - http://www.geocities.com/ccicenter/(Currently Down)

Thanks your post was very infomative
i think you made a good point too!
Do each of you breed parsons?if so are you breeding different morphs
and are the parsons chr. as hard as the normal parsons?
I like to learn about all the different chameleons,even if i dont plan on breeding
if i could breed any chameleon,i would breed the b.peramata
also on the cites list,i hope that if someone is breeding them they dont sell the babies for as much as the parsons,because i would never get the chance!
Chameleons are great 'lil pets but im not rich!