Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok, this isnt a boa question, so Im not going to be shocked if its pulled. However you guys are the only forum I speak to frequently, so here goes.

One of the very near shows to my state has been unwilling for years to allow my business (or just about any business from our fair city) to vend at their show. Not only this, but the promoter is soo big headed as to not return request for tables.

When we are able to speak with them in person, or through other members we are always told the shows sold out, yet when you arrive at the show tables are empty.

My question is this, would it be wrong to throw a show on the same day in the same hotel? Im not going to do this to make money, in fact addmission and tables would all be free. I would allow other vendors who have been ignored by this show the ability to compete at the show.

Now were not talking dirt ball vendors, we are talking quality business' (like I would like to believe mine is)that have been ignored by the show. I could understand not allowing people who sell junk animals at a show. I can even understand not allowing a particular company for whatever reason. But the lack of responce, and the arrogant attitude is what makes me want to put them in their place, even at finacial cost to myself.
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Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
http://thelizardkingreptiles.com
402-614-6641

"I am the Lizard King, I can do anything" - Jim Morrison

Hey Mickey, sounds like something is not up to par on this one, but you never know. They may very well sell out tables and have people who did in fact reserve them not show up. On the other hand he may have something against the business' in your state for whatever reason, and as your willing to do, they themselves are losing money by not selling available tables to you....I'd want to know WHY. If your wanting to put on your own show though, I think I would put on my OWN show....Your state, your choice of venues, and your choice of dates. If this other show isn't up to snuff, then I wouldn't even want to associate myself with them by having a show in the same location. I see what your wanting to do, but I don't see the previously mentioned method doing anything other than aggravating some people at a huge expense to you(not only financially, but your time in organizing a show). I'd have to recommend letting it go, there are many shows that I'm sure would gladly sell you a table, and even if you had to drive a little farther, you'd probably save yourself a ton of time and expense vs. going head to head against an established show just to make a point. Put that time and energy into your shop and you shouldn't need to attend that show. Best of luck Mickey, you'll work it out-Take care!

Paul

You know Im sure your 100% correct, and all logic in my little peanut tells me soo also.

However the one variable in this is SPITE. And at this time I honestly think its worth it for spite.

The show is a good show, not a great one. Its a well respected show, with many of the vendors being GREAT friends of mine.

I think its the whole slap in the face attitude you get from this person that makes you finally want to stand up.

As for throwing a show to compete, I dont want to do that. I want to make a point. There is another show that was started to try and compete and the herp society has done its best to stop it. That allong with miss management has left the show worthless to say the least. But that in turn has hurt any other start up show from succeding.

However lets say your walking to the hotel ball room, the same one its always at, and low and behold allong the way in you see a sign saying "FREE ADMISSION TO REPTILE SHOW". Lets be honest 9 out of 10 people are coming in (and the room Im looking at is first...LOL).

The other option is to wear a t shirt to the show with my currently available list on the back and a front that says "I wanted a table at this show but "x" wouldnt allow me one".
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Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
http://thelizardkingreptiles.com
402-614-6641

"I am the Lizard King, I can do anything" - Jim Morrison

Paul I know who he is talking about, Ive been through the same thing with the same show. There was another show within the same town and sure enough who do you think is leading fisha and game through the comepeting show? One of the guys who ran the orig show. Nothing happened but when you have a competitor dragging law enforcment through they show you know what they are trying to do.

Hey give me a call Mickey Ill help ya out and gladly cover the rodent end for ya. Let me know what your thoughts are I really like this idea LOL
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Jason & Danica
Don't wanna wait 'til tomorrow Why put it off another day? One by one, little problems Build up, and stand in our way. Oh One step ahead, one step behind it Now ya gotta run to get even Make future plans I'll dream about yesterday, hey! Come on turn, turn this thing around (Right now) Hey! It's your tomorrow (Right now) Come on, it's everything (Right now) Catch your magic moment (Right now) Catch your magic moment Do it right here and now Do it right here and now, IT MEANS EVERYTHING (Van Halen, Right Now)

So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating/Can't find a good reason, can't find hope to believe in/...You can't change the state of the nation we just need/ some motivation...So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating(Sum41 Still Waiting)

Classic Dums frozen feeders

So, it's not an innocent thing at all it seems. Well, without question if I went into one lobby and I could go one of two directions, free or paid admission, I'd have to pick the free show. I also like the T-shirt idea-LOL! Sounds like your going to have to make sure all your vendors are totally legal Mickey if this guy is out trying to cause other people trouble, but that shouldn't take too much. I think I'd also contact his vendors and offer them reduced table(or free) rates. If your taking his customers, you might as well take his vendors as well! Spite is a wonderful motivator!!!! Go get em' guys!!! LOL, take care!

Paul

Yea, Jason you know the situation.

I just contacted the hotel where the show is being thrown, and told them what Id like to do.

They are checking to see if the contract states no competing events, then Im sol. However if it doesnt they will rent me a room.

So I guess once I find that out I will tell more.

Funny thing is, they said they would have to call the other promoter to see if its in the contract. Asked if I had a problem with that, I said "NOPE, TELL THEM ITS MICKEY HINKLE FROM THE LIZARD KING REPTILES".

So Im supposed to get a call within the next day or two informing me IF the hotel wants my money...lol.

You will be one of the first to know Jason.
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Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
http://thelizardkingreptiles.com
402-614-6641

"I am the Lizard King, I can do anything" - Jim Morrison

Mickey.. Im pretty sure I know who your talking about also. If you decide to do the show... Let me know... I'll set up at your show as well.
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All right I don't know you or your competitor but provided you are on the up and up I have great respect for your pluck and tenacity!!! Best of luck with your revenge and let us know when to attend your show if we are close enough.

I really love the way you handle life. No whining, no threatening, no bad guy stuff at all; just a brilliant solution that will take this snotty show and give it the kind of lesson it obviously needs to get.
You rock.

Competition is what makes people work harder at providing quality and customer saticfaction. If the other show has empty tables whos to say they are a show?
I would first check with the contract between the other show and the hotel, there may be a stipulation about another show on the same day, you may even want to really throw them off and have a show the week before so nobody will go to the other one.
Check with the hotel first , I'm sure they could answer more questions.
and as it being unethical, hell no this is a FREE country and business is business, may the best show prevail.

Go for it. , this industry needs more publicity.

Nick Gancarz
Boa's Ark c.b.r.

I know what you mean about the pig headed show runner, and due to the lack of allowing a table for the show running your own in the same location is completely understandable..
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Randall L Turner Jr.
www.aircapitalconstrictors.com

Mickey
I love your idea. To everyone posting back to Mickey, he is being honest in his statements about this show and its promoters.In the past, I personally as a vendor have been snubbed by them. Mickey to tell you the truth as much as "they" brag how great thier show is the attendance is WAYYYYYY down. I guess the big "python breeder" can attract only so many people. I guess bashing your neigboring shows and herp societies catches up in the end. Each year they just keep shooting themselves in the foot with arrogance they carry.
J.R.

Mickey,
You obviously lack the mean streak that runs through me LOL. I would not put on a show the same day. First off the Hotel may not allow it and second off it is splitting up the business too much. Put on the show the weekend before his show. Don’t make the tables for free, but use the fee to make it a great show. Sell the table for less then what he does by about 40% (the first year or so). Sell tickets at half the price, if not free admission. Get the concession vendors in the area and let them open up for a small fee (just like the tables) so the people can have lunch and drinks at the show. If they have food, a bathroom and activities, they will stay longer and possibly buy more. Also an ATM machine is important, so customers can get out the money they did not plan on spending.
Use the fees to advertise in the “Pets for Sale” Section of the local newspapers and run the adds for 3 day periods for several weeks before the show, this should be relatively inexpensive. Put on the best darn show you can, getting as many vendors as you can. By the time the next guy show comes around the next weekend, most of the areas customers will have already been to your show and his turn out will be very poor and his shows table sales will be very low the following year.
Now of course my evil plan will only work assuming that you are not going against a show like Daytona or something on that scale, but your Local guy with a local show, easy to put a hurt on him. First however I would ask him why he refuses to let you set up?
Good luck
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Jim Hopkins "Hoppy"
Hopkins Holesale Herps
Hopfam1@aol.com

I realize we can't say who runs it, but where is it? I think you could end up with a bunch of vendors for even a reduced cost show on the same day. Let the other show spend the big money on advertising. Craig

Why not tell all, as I am in the process of eliminating any chance of solving this like men soo to speak.

The show is the Kansas City Herp Show, held twice a year.

First to answer Hoppy about doing it the week before. Another show is being held the week before allready, and honestly another show in that town isnt really needed at this time.

Kansas City's market is falling badly from everything Ive seen and heard. As such adding one more show to the situation will not help. However doing it the way I plan its currently wouldnt really add a new show, just send a shot across the bow. I wouldnt advertise per say, other then maybe vauge adds like EXOTIC REPTILE SHOW AT X LOCATION. People will easily assume the add is a KC Herp Add and wouldnt really have to know the fight that is happening inside. They would come and the show would just appear larger then normal, and in two rooms...lol.

You may ask, why not support the other show, well thats a whole other can. Its been miss run from the start, and in its current incarnation is doomed to failure. Plus the KC herp society is doing its best to keep any vendors from supporting ANY other show in the city. Even if it were a show on a different month, ect. Lastly I could not in good faith put my name behind the other show, enough said.

Now to the one and only reason that could be given for not allowing me a table. And let me start by saying this. I have inquired about tables for years about this show, lets say 5 could be 4 could be 6. Never a responce directly from the promoter. Approx 3 years ago I was in a phyisical alteration at the show. I WAS NOT A VENDOR, and it WAS NOT WITH A VENDOR. I was also defending myself from being jumped. I had a situation with another store owner in NE that just happened to come to a head at that show. That aside, I and many others had and have recieved the same treatment.

I have at many times offered explination for the incident. I have also had many well known people try and interviene on my behalf to no avail. Ive eaten crow that was not and is not deserved. Why, well being from Nebraska, your going to travel alot if you do shows. So ANY chance to do a quality (or what could be) show 3 hours away twice a year is very desirable. I would also love to advertise my business in person in Kansas City as we are in the area quite frequently and Im sure I could do alot of business there. Lastly I have a TON of friends that do and attend the show I would love to get together with. Instead I feel like a pariah when I do show up, just because its well known I want a table and Im not getting one.

Likely the hotel will not work with me, I should know more tommorow. If at that time Im SOL, then its plan B. Currently plan B is the T-Shirt and a SMILE, but who knows. I will rush together a "SPITE" show, but a real show would be a whole other can Im not sure I want to open. But if I did, it would be a good show I think. Kansas City is a good sized market, and St Louis isnt far away. If you provide a quality show, the customers will return. If you advertise a bit more Im sure the customers will return. There are ALOT of very knowladgeable herpers in the KC area, and Im sure most are fed up with the local shows.

Thats my rant, likely it will be pulled for all I know.
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Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
http://thelizardkingreptiles.com
402-614-6641

"I am the Lizard King, I can do anything" - Jim Morrison

Someone said something about supporting the other show. I agree with Mickey, its doomed for failure. I pulled out of the other show because of one or two vendors who were selling the worst of the worst. Of course the half dead animals were always cheaper then any quality ones but the following month it always seemd the door number would drop. Also their be a ton of complaints about this one guy. There was a couple of us who told the promoter if he wasnt removed wed leave which would have pretty much rendered him vendor less. He was removed from the show for a while, then I missed a show because I had another one the same day and they allowed him back in. So at that point I never went back.
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Jason & Danica
Don't wanna wait 'til tomorrow Why put it off another day? One by one, little problems Build up, and stand in our way. Oh One step ahead, one step behind it Now ya gotta run to get even Make future plans I'll dream about yesterday, hey! Come on turn, turn this thing around (Right now) Hey! It's your tomorrow (Right now) Come on, it's everything (Right now) Catch your magic moment (Right now) Catch your magic moment Do it right here and now Do it right here and now, IT MEANS EVERYTHING (Van Halen, Right Now)

So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating/Can't find a good reason, can't find hope to believe in/...You can't change the state of the nation we just need/ some motivation...So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating(Sum41 Still Waiting)

Classic Dums frozen feeders

Mickey
Thats cool you posted the shows name. My hands have been tied for years for saying anything too outrageus about them. The show has really never had anything more to offer other than a BIG name Python/boa vendor. I think thier brashness has finally caught up to them. As far as my opinion goes the reptile shows in Omaha and Des Moines are better shows. Just becouse the shows bigger, like everything else in life, doesnt mean its any better. After the incident with Mickey and the altercation he had, one of the reasons I have gone back to thier shows is how they treated Mickey and the incident. Hey, there loss on quality vendors J.R.

To blame the incident on Mickey was plain wrong.

Im glad you didnt get pissed that I listed the full info.

Right after I did, I thought man I just hung J.R. out to dry on that one.

Im well aware that many people feel the same way about that society as I do. What digs at me the most, is Im good enough to buy there animals, and they will even contact me asking to buy my animals. But when its time to allow a guy to vend, no go there.

No call from the hotel today, and I assume I know the answer. Likely for the better, but it sure would have been fun.

The Omaha and Des Moines shows are both much better, as you said. If nothing else everyone is welcome, and treated equally.
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Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
http://thelizardkingreptiles.com
402-614-6641

"I am the Lizard King, I can do anything" - Jim Morrison

why is the show promoter unwilling to allow herp businesses, such as yours, to vend at the show? does anyone know? just curious.
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Sincerely,
Jason
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np
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Sincerely,
Jason
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Just a thought, but might having a free show in the same place turn out to be couterproductive insofar as it simply offers consumers twice the options in the same location? By virtue of being free, it seems like all you do is double the size of the original show, increasing its appeal for consumers, at cost to you. If your intent is really to undermine the show, you would need to force a choice, and thus insert competition into the market. The only way I see this happening is to follow the earlier suggestion and find a way to draw the vendors away, and make sure that it is to a different location altogether so that you don't end up de facto with one large show in two rooms.

Just my $0.02

Kris

Kris Stroup

Hi Ink Master
Maybe you could have one of your good vendor friends buy twice as much space & share half of it with you ?
It could be mutually beneficial If you both are offering different things.
If someone is trying to keep you out as a vendor, your mere presence there could be just as irritating as a show next door would be.
With MUCH less effort on your part. Just my $.02

Ive thought of and tried that route.

Problem is its very well known that if its found your shareing or sub renting space you will be tossed. As such I dont want to put any friends in that position.

Secondly as good of friends as I am with many of theese vendors, none of my closest friends that would even consider something like that are allowed to vend either. The other "friends" are more then supportive of myself and my right, but support only goes soo far soo to speak, and thats fine.

No word from the hotel, and Im sure it will be a no anyways if they do return the call. O well.

Time to go to get a few shirts printed. I think mine will read

THE LIZARD KING REPTILES CURRENT INVENTORY (on front w animals listed)

and

I TRIED TO PURCHASE A TABLE FOR 5 YEARS on the back

Then for all the people I can con into wearing one

FREE THE LIZARD KING SHIRTS.

Im also considering going down and doing there herp meetings for the next few sessions. Im sure I will be ignored, but hey it may be worth the 3 hour drive to get under some skin. Anyone who knows me well knows that I can be very hard headed in my ways.
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Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
http://thelizardkingreptiles.com
402-614-6641

"I am the Lizard King, I can do anything" - Jim Morrison