Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I decided to put this post up, since I put one like it up on the old forum, right before they switched over.

I just want to know if you guys think I am ready for a snake (probably either a kingsnake of somesort, a cornsnake, or maybe a ball python, but most likely the first 2). My parents simply don't want the animal in the house, which I think it weird because they love my bearded dragon Sidney. But I guess they are one of the very few reptiles that can (or seem to) show affection. I know I am responsible enough for a snake, since I can take care of my bearded dragon all by myself (and they can be complicated lizards, and have many specific needs, like UV lighting and large enlosures). I just want you people to read over a short list of things I plan on providing (complete with questions on some stuff), and tell me if you think I could provide a nice little snake with a good home.

-10 gallon aquarium for up to 30" in size. After that, I plan on having at least a 20 gallon long, but probably 29, 30, or 40. I am going to use screen clips for the top, as well as probably somesort of strap that would strap around the entire cage and top.
-I plan on using either aspen bedding, bark bedding, or repti-carpet. I know not to use cedar or pine.
-For the interior, I will have a hide on the warm side, a hide on the cool side, and a water dish. I might put in a branch, as long as it doesn't take up too much room.
-I will feed the snake every 5-7 days when young, and about every 10-14 days when it gets older (near adult size). The mice will be about as thick as the thickest part of the snake's body. Also, I think I am going to feed the snake in a seperate enclosure of some sort (like a secure rubbermaid tub) in order to reduce chances of getting bitten while taking the snake out of the cage because of feeding responce, and to cut down the chances of impaction.
QUESTION: How do you remove the snake from the feeding enclosure? It will be in feed mode, so how do you do it without getting bitten? Also, won't it upset the snake's stomach to be moved after just eating?
-The cage will be heated with a heatlamp on one end of the cage. The temperatures will be about 80-85 on the warm end (though it can vary depending on the species I go with), and 70-75 on the cool side.
QUESTION: If my house doesn't go below 65 degrees F at night, do I have to leave the light on through the night, or can I turn it off? Usually the night time temperature in my bedroom is about 68-72. My bearded dragon's heat lamp gets turned off everynight by a timer, and it works out perfectly, but I'm not sure if the same is true for the snakes in question. I would think from where they are from, the lights (even if they are night lights) should turn off at night to make the right night - day temperature cycle. If I can just turn the light off at night, can I use just a normal household lightbulb?
-I plan on taking the snake out for handling every 1-2 days (waiting 2 days after every feeding). I know that I have to give him/her a couple of days after I get it home to get adjusted, but then would it be best to try to handle the snake first, or to feed it first? I won't mind getting bitten. It will probably scare me when I get bitten though, since the strike is so fast, but the actually bite won't bother me much, unless it's a bite from an adult ball python, but they rarely if ever bite if they have been tamed properly.

I can't really think of anything else right now. If you have any comments, please post them. If not, just tell me if you think I am ready or not, and why. Also, if my first plan to try to get my mom and dad to let me have a snake (taking them to the petshop, showing them the snakes, talk about them to show how much I know, and handle of couple of them to show how harmless they are), do you have any ideas? On a final note, I have been thinking about the safety of my other pets. I know sidney will be safe if I keep his cage, and more importantly, the snake cage secure, but I also have a cat that wanders the house. Could any of the snakes I mentioned really harm her (or kill her)?

"QUESTION: How do you remove the snake from the feeding enclosure? It will be in feed mode, so how do you do it without getting bitten? Also, won't it upset the snake's stomach to be moved after just eating?"

You can use a snake hook if the snake a large enough. Or, you can leave the snake in the feeding tank for a few hours (with a heat source) and pick it up after it clams down. Or, you can pick up the feed tank (many people use a light weight rubber (clean) trash can type thing for the feed tank) and gently "pour" the snake back into its home tank.

"QUESTION: If my house doesn't go below 65 degrees F at night, do I have to leave the light on through the night, or can I turn it off? Usually the night time temperature in my bedroom is about 68-72. My bearded dragon's heat lamp gets turned off everynight by a timer, and it works out perfectly, but I'm not sure if the same is true for the snakes in question. I would think from where they are from, the lights (even if they are night lights) should turn off at night to make the right night - day temperature cycle. If I can just turn the light off at night, can I use just a normal household lightbulb?"

A normal household lightbulb does not give off alot of heat. I use a nightglow bulb that gives off heat, but the light is red wich snakes cannot see. You could get away with no lights on a snake at night (depending on the type of snake) but I would not take that chance. I have three snakes (two kings and a milk) and I always have a light or a human heat pad on under the tank just to make sure they have a warm place to go to. As for balls, the need higher temps than kings. I would do to the care pages and read everything about kings before you get one.

"-I plan on taking the snake out for handling every 1-2 days (waiting 2 days after every feeding). I know that I have to give him/her a couple of days after I get it home to get adjusted, but then would it be best to try to handle the snake first, or to feed it first? I won't mind getting bitten. It will probably scare me when I get bitten though, since the strike is so fast, but the actually bite won't bother me much, unless it's a bite from an adult ball python, but they rarely if ever bite if they have been tamed properly."

Balls are not good snakes for a first time snake owner. Here's why: they are rather delicate snakes. They need higer temps and humidity than most kings and corns, and if they don't get it they are more likely to get problems. They can also be tricky feeders.

"Could any of the snakes I mentioned really harm her (or kill her)?"

A ball could give a cat a good bite, but kings and corns are not likely to harm a cat. Some kings can get to be 5 or 6 feet (chain kings) so I would make sure it does not get out. If you are going to keep the snake in a 20 gal long, I would not keep a snake over 3 feet in the tank. That will limit your choices...full grown cal kings and corns are too big for a 20 gal long.

I would wait on getting the snake unless you are compleaty sure you want to get into careing for it (ie. keeping forzen mice in the freezer). If I were you...I would try to spend more time working around them fist. Snakes are not like lizards, they are not as active. Most of the time they spend hiding, so realy ask your self if you want a snake because you like snakes, or because you like the idea of having a snake.

My first snake was a corn, and second was a ball. I aggree with the last comment saying that balls need more heat, but personally that wasn't a big problem for me, the problem i had was that my ball didn't like my mother, and so all she had to do was walk by him and he would strike, but everyone else wouldn't have any troble with him...

So if u get a ball i would recommend that your mother at least be around it before u buy it, becuase i heard that they can have a picky temperment at times..

As far the kings, the only king i own is a speckled king, and i totally don't recommend one of them as a first snake, or a second snake at that because of them temperment.. I've had mine for a while now, and he's more aggressive then the cobra that my friend has.

But other kings make great pets.. U also have to understand that most kings recuire 2 feedings a week, becuase of they're higher motabalizem.

I have thought about the "do you want a snake because you like snakes, or do you want a snake just because you like the idea of having it". Well, I defanitely wouldn't be getting one to flaunt it around because I thought it was cool. Well, I do think that snakes are cool, but in a different way. Really, I want a snake because I love snakes, and all reptiles (which is weird, since I am terrified of spiders). But technically, it's a little of both, because I do like the idea of having one. But like I said, it is because it would love to watch the snake whenever it comes out (don't get me wrong, I have owned a desert kingsnake [more on that in a second] and I know they are not very active, but that's what makes it so cool when you do find them slithering around). I like the fact that I would be able to hold the snake, and really have a chance to raise it from a baby. If I can get a snake again, I will really look forward to taming it. When I had my desert kingsnake before (which I admit was a mistake, since I was in 2nd grade and therefore unable to tame the snake myself, and my dad is a little bit afraid of snakes), I was way too young, and sadly, we weren't able to get him tamed. I think part of the problem was also that the cage had the door on the front. I know it's less intimidating for the snake if you come from the side, but it's a lot less intimidating to someone new to snakes when you can just reach down in. But I know it was all our fault. It was too soon, and that's mainly why I can't get a snake now. They think that all snakes are that hard to tame, but it was really just a matter of me being too young, and my parents being afraid. I'm not sure my mom would want mice in her freezer again, but now we also have a freezer in the basement with hardly anything in it.

I want to handle as many snakes possible before I get mine (if I get it). I want to be hissed at, rattled at, and bitten before I look for my own little snake. I remember that when we had the snake (Sparky), he used to his, and this would really intimidate my dad, and seeing that my dad was getting intimidated by it, was making me feel intimidated. The one time we were able to get him out for handling (one time, that's sad, especially since we had him for about 2 years before we sold him), was when I just reached in and grabbed him. Then, my dad was never home again (he used to be a truck driver) and my mom didn't want to be the supervisor, so we didn't take him out for a while. Then, one time we really needed to take him out, because he had mites, and I didn't want to do it for a really stupid reason. I didn't want to get the mites on me.

But, hopefully I can someday get all of that behind me, and just remember the good things. Once you had him in your hand, he was fine. It was just getting him out of that cage.

later

Ryan,

It sounds like you've done a bit of research, and that's good. You've got most of the basics covered. Great job!

Now, your cage size is a bit small for most adult snakes, so I suggest either getting one that is a juvenile, or get a larger cage. A young corn snake should be fine in a 10 or 20 gallon tank, but be ready to provide something even large for an adult.

If you go with a corn, king, or milksnake, then set your lightbulb on a timer to go off at night. The slightly cooler temperatures will actually be closer to what they would get in the wild. I think keeping them at the same temperature all the time is probably not a good idea, anyway.

A captive bred ball python is a good choice for many people, but they do have some feeding issues that you might not be ready to handle. If nothing else, ball pythons may have a slightly higher risk of needing vet treatment, which will cost money and time - and your parents wlll need to provide at least part of that, right? The more they have to be involved, the less it sounds like they will like it. I'd wait for a ball python until later.

The bottom line, though, is that it is your parents' home, and they have the right to set limits on what you may have. You obviously have done some reading, and are eager to learn more. But, you may just have to wait until your parents are a little more comfortable with the idea.

How long have you had your bearded dragon? Perhaps after a year or two of that, your parents will see that your interest is not waning, and they will be more likely to allow another unusual pet.

Good luck!

-----
Bonnie Keller
PH Scales
Kingsnake.com Site Coordinator

but obviously that won't be necessary for a cornsnake, kingsnake, or even a ball python. I thought that the 20gallon sounded a little small, so I think I would use something about 36"x18". I actually have a tank that size for my bearded dragon right now, and I will be getting a 4'x2'x2' enclosure (hopefully) before 2004. I think I might end up getting a 4'x18"x2' for the beardie though, since it will be hard getting the 2' deep one to fit quite right in my bedroom.

Anyways, on to the rest. As you can see, my love for reptiles isn't going away. I am trying to provide Sidney (my beardie) with the best possible living conditions I can possibly provide, as I will do for a snake if I get one. I have only had Sidney since October, and all ready we have been through a lot together. I have taken him to the vet 2 times already (first time to get weighed for medicines, second time for a checkup). I have taken at least 2 of his fecal samples in as well. The first one came out possitive for pinworms, so I treated him for that, and the second one came back positive for coccidia, so I have been treating him for that for a couple of monthes as well. I think we may have this stuff all behind us now. I just have to take in a fecal to confirm it.

I keep Sid's lights on a timer as well, it works out great for him, and I assume it will work out good for a snake. Like you said, it's probably better for them than constant high temperatures.

I like ball pythons. They are easy to handle, and pretty laidback most of the time. They just may not be the snake for me. Well, plus, even if my parents lets me have a snake, I don't think they will let me have anything bigger than a cornsnake.

I guess the best thing I can do is start showing my interest in them more, and do like I was planning. It is their house, so it's their rules. But they also said I couldn't have a lizard, and three monthes later, I got Sidney. I have to put a lot of time and work into maintaining him, but it's definately worth it. Plus, he's still growing (not much though, he's already 16", so he's eating a ton of crickets each week, costing us about $11 every 1-2 weeks (if you include the greens). At least if my parents let me have a snake, I will be able to pay for most of it.

thanks

later

I think you are definetly ready for a snake unless your parents dissaprove of course.You seem to have a good grip on keeping sankes and have done your research. I wish everyone loved snakes like you do and do the neccesary research. Couple things I might mention/add:
1) Try not to get a Ball Python for the reasons mentioned. A corn or Eastern king of the getula/brooksi group does well for a first snake. Get a captive born snake!
2) Get an undertank heating source(ie heat pad) The snake will thermoregulate and you won't have to worry about the snake getting dry skin and shed problems from a light bulb. Also an undertank heat source keeps the electric bills down!
3)Try a more frequent feeding schedule. The one you outlined is a bit lean. Most neonates (babies) you want to get off of pinks asap and onto something with bones/calcium and more protein. In any case "up" the frequency of feedings! Also, have you discussed with your parents the possibility of keeping frozen rodents in your frig? That should put a nail in the possibility of you getting any snakes! LOL! [Hint] break it to them slowly and in parts. Tell them the negatives after they allowed the snake.
4) Try in anyway possible (beg, cry, demand) and well....you know how to get your parents permission. Make sure you do that before you get your snake!!
When I was a boy I cried for a snake for many years until one day my dad came home with a snake from the pet shop on my birthday. It was a Bronze Back Tree snake from Thailand.... I already had a cage set up for it. I remember my dad coming in with this brown paper bag and dumping my snake into its cage. It was real wild and bit at first but with handling became extremy gentle and tame. Most of the time it stayed on a house plant outside of its cage in our living room. It stayed there and never left. Just kinda hung out scoping out the scene in our daily lives. This snake lived for many years until one day, ten years later, it did leave its plant in the living room and escaped from our house and ended up on a neihbors bedroom drapes (Browny like to climb). The neihbor was a single girl was and scared to death when she laid down to rest and saw "browny" hanging there. She called the fire dept, police dept and they hauled poor browny off. We called but the fireman released her into the wild the next day.
This was along time ago. I since have been keeping and breeding sanke for 35 yrs. I currently have over 300 breeders. Yes...my fantasies have all come true.

Just always remember when someone asks you why you like snakes, simply tell them "because I think they are beautiful"
Good Luck!
Bluerosy

Because when I wanted one of them, they saw that I was interested in them, and at first my mom just said stuff like, "I don't want another reptile in the house again", or "we can't afford another animal to feed" (it costs more money per week for her to buy cigarretes then to feed a lizard, and lizards don't cause cancer). Then, since I had been posting on the bearded dragon forum for a while asking questions, someone really nice on the board emailed me and told me that they thought I was ready for a bearded dragon, and that I could give one a good home. They even offered me a free bearded dragon when they hatch, but I thought it would be easier and less stressful to buy locally, so we did that. Anyways, I showed my mom that the morning after I got it, and at first she was kind of agrivated, but I talked to her about it in the car, and then I showed her my friend's bearded dragon, and they were sold.

But, I think I can convince them this time just by going to this nice petshop and handling a couple of them while talking about them, and everything I know about them.

I am going to do this the next time we go to get crickets. If I am lucky, it will work, if not, I can just keep basically doing the same thing (asking to handle them everytime I go to the place).

I think I might use just a heating pad underneath, and maybe a fluorescent or really low wattage (like 15 watt) standard lightbulb on top for light only.

later

well after reading your post i realized how lucky i am that my dad lets me have all of my animals i couldnt see my life without any of them.(a ball python(daisy)a iguana,2 firbelly toads(humper and thumper)2 firebelly newts(flip and flop)my fish, and fry and my tadpoles and probably more to come)maybe you could just sit down with your mom and dad and explain to them that this is really what u want and ur prepared.my dad encourages me,my dad and i are making plans to re model the basement into a large room for our pets.and with the snakes ive had i think balls are my favorite,diasy is my first ball and i have been lucky to have a good eater but ive heard lots of stories about really picky balls.they do need higher temps.just research and set up the tank before u get it so u can work out all the bugs b4 the snake is in there and has to live throught your mistakes. i hope this helps out
Jamie

Sounds like you've done your research... make sure that your parents know what you're doing when it comes to reptiles. Also, I would try to show your parents that this snake thing isn't just a 2 month obsession, that you really care about it and you're interest won't go away. That's often what my parents thought at least, they thought that I would get bored with my pets after a while.