Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here's shot of my largest female Keko. She's due in about a month and I would not be taking her out, but her set-up needed a spot clean anyway. She can really get a 5 gallon bucket messy! Just kidding. Sorry about the photo quality, it was a quickie. I'll have to get some shots of her outdoors after she's parturated. She's a very contrasted specimen with no reds or pinks. Some browns,though.
Later-
Matt Schubarth
Pet Nebula
2100 Stephens #116
Missoula, Montana 59801
406 541 9929

Very easy to handle, never strikes never bites.
Later-
Matt Schubarth
Pet Nebula
2100 Stephens #116
Missoula, Montana 59801
406 541 9929

great looking dumeril. looks like the cockatiel is laying low!!!

Solid looking Dumerils there but if she was due in a month back in April she should have been done a while back..

Wrong pic? Bad date stamp? Explain, please.

Thanks!

Gus

i believe the pic was taken on 08/04/04.

No time travel involved. I almost like it better. We do many things ax-backwards in the US. Big fan of metric as well. Hey Gus, I didn't get answer from you about those Venz? Are those two Venz Boas that you sold through Cagle wc or cb? Shot of female below as a reference.
Thanks-
Later-
Matt Schubarth
Pet Nebula
2100 Stephens #116
Missoula, Montana 59801
406 541 9929

Yeah, I'm just ribbin you..

Gus

info on breeding boas is very consice... appreaciated. I visit the pages of your site a couple x's a week just to look at the variety of boas you raise.. simply outstanding! I do enjoy the photo of the "were on it" girl, however, I'm at the point were I'd rather see the Trinidad Red-Tails. Pretty please?
Later-
Matt Schubarth
Pet Nebula
2100 Stephens #116
Missoula, Montana 59801
406 541 9929

You think shes a cross? she above average size you said somewhere before about big ones being crosses so whats your thoughts? is that the one who had the offspring that died?
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Jason & Danica
Don't wanna wait 'til tomorrow Why put it off another day? One by one, little problems Build up, and stand in our way. Oh One step ahead, one step behind it Now ya gotta run to get even Make future plans I'll dream about yesterday, hey! Come on turn, turn this thing around (Right now) Hey! It's your tomorrow (Right now) Come on, it's everything (Right now) Catch your magic moment (Right now) Catch your magic moment Do it right here and now Do it right here and now, IT MEANS EVERYTHING (Van Halen, Right Now)

So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating/Can't find a good reason, can't find hope to believe in/...You can't change the state of the nation we just need/ some motivation...So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating(Sum41 Still Waiting)

Classic Dums frozen feeders

she came with a RI. The lady I got her from had moved up from Arizona and she'd probably picked it up along the way. The vet she had brought her to had put her on antibiotics, and was still on them(antibiotics) when I bought her. Little did we know that she was pregnant, a week later she aborted her litter prematurely. Probably wasn't even an RI, just a stressed out momma. She's done nothing but put on weight/size since. They are one tough specie to gauge pregnancy. Hold their weight so well and have so few young for a boa of their size.
I doubt she's a cross.. she's well within the size range of a Dumerils.. but on the top end at that. Are you suffering from boa envy? Don't worry, size isn't everything.. or at least that's what they tell you. LOL.
Bye-bye,
Matt Schubarth
Pet Nebula
2100 Stephens #116
Missoula, Montana 59801
406 541 9929

LMAO...yeah he's very envious of your 1.2 dumerils or whatever you have today or yesterday, you kill me! I'm jealous as well, I have males larger than that animal, but of course whatever you might say has gotta be true! By the way...you said one of your "new" dumerils is 32" long at 2 years old. Is this the animal you JUST bought from Jason? Because as I understand it, he is only a yearling. Of course that info would put a hole in your story regarding growth rates, which I'm sure your basing on more animals than just the few you own, which this one you just pictured was not purchased as a baby, so she would give you absolutely no basis to go on in regards to growth rate of average dumerils, but whatever....In the previous posts involving you, you stated the need of scientific proof prior to stating things, yet you state what is or is NOT a cross according to YOUR OPINION, and how your buddies two dumerils died based on your OPINION of what happened. That's called spreading BAD INFO in my OPINION....Yeah, it died because of BLANK....that's just a GUESS, but I'm going to proclaim it in a public forum with no proof to back it up whatsoever, but I'll come off like an expert to a few newbies, so I'm going for it!!! LMAO Yeah, I can totally see where Jason would need to be envious of you and an animal you didn't raise, but bought...surely at a lower price due to her illness, and having no real background info, I'm sure you'll sell her babies as possible crosses(due to her upper size range) and probably won't even breed her at all(wait she's gravid right???) because you can't trace her lineage enough to know if she's related to the stock you already have....ya know, further depleting the already shallow gene pool?!?!? Bye Bye

God I hope he was kidding Paul LOL Paul are you jelous of an average looking snake? LOL This is way to funny, you are right though Paul that fact the animal he lied about below and said its two yrs old and 32 inches really, when its really a yearling and 32 inches shots a huge hole in his growth rate theory. Humm Dumerils are born on average 18-20 inches, lets see to be 36 at two years means they can only grown 8 inches a year, that sounds like a severly under feed animal to me. 8 inches a yr, would also mean it would take a dumerils over 7yrs to grow to 5ft. But then again I probally shouldnt havge said that because that average posted above comes from the hundreds I have produced and since I dont have all them setting here in front of me I guess I cant really back that statement up. even if I did they wouldnt be the same size, my yearling would be atleast 36inch LOL Oh well some more useless drivle I guess LOL
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Jason & Danica
Don't wanna wait 'til tomorrow Why put it off another day? One by one, little problems Build up, and stand in our way. Oh One step ahead, one step behind it Now ya gotta run to get even Make future plans I'll dream about yesterday, hey! Come on turn, turn this thing around (Right now) Hey! It's your tomorrow (Right now) Come on, it's everything (Right now) Catch your magic moment (Right now) Catch your magic moment Do it right here and now Do it right here and now, IT MEANS EVERYTHING (Van Halen, Right Now)

So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating/Can't find a good reason, can't find hope to believe in/...You can't change the state of the nation we just need/ some motivation...So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating(Sum41 Still Waiting)

Classic Dums frozen feeders

It seems to me that a LOT of what we're told concerning dumerils by Matt is coming from responses to his(Biophiliacs)pictures within the KS.com photogallery. As you will recall he told us of a guy he KNEW that bought dumerils from Swedish zoo stock with 12' parents....this is what someone said in a reply to one of his photos. So, Matt, is THIS scientific data??? Someone you(don't seem to anyway) don't know, replying at random to a photo you uploaded stating things you can't even begin to verify? I'm guessing this guy doesn't live in the U.S. as importing Dumerils boas(as I'm sure you already know???) is not an easy task. Something about CITES what ever that might be-LMAO! And I read the reply to a photo about the 1 year and 8 month old 5' long dumerils. I also noted you posting Bills pics and stating that although not proven you think it's what a hypo would look like, and it also looks like a JUNGLE??????? LMAO, we don't know Jack, but your going to go BEYOND Hypo, Pastel, whatever, and start IMPLYING to people at random that Bills animal(NOT EVEN YOUR OWN ANIMAL) might just be a JUNGLE??? LMAO, This gets better everyday! I love all of this, because while your getting angry, I'm laughing everytime I reply to something you try to pass off as good info! Take er' easy buddy! bye bye

So I havnt checked it out but I do remeber the comment about the swedish. You notice how above he stated, as fact that his female threw slugs due to being on antibiotics? About 6-7yrs ago I had to treat some animals for RI while they were gravid at this point I think I only had 2.3 dumerils. 2 out of the 3 females were on antibiotics I think that was the one and only year I tried Matts theory of the 60 degree temps and wound up with them all getting sick. Funny thing is I remeber asking the vet about giving anti's to gravid animals she said it was safe. From the solid litters I got later on I guess she was right. Go figure....
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Jason & Danica
Don't wanna wait 'til tomorrow Why put it off another day? One by one, little problems Build up, and stand in our way. Oh One step ahead, one step behind it Now ya gotta run to get even Make future plans I'll dream about yesterday, hey! Come on turn, turn this thing around (Right now) Hey! It's your tomorrow (Right now) Come on, it's everything (Right now) Catch your magic moment (Right now) Catch your magic moment Do it right here and now Do it right here and now, IT MEANS EVERYTHING (Van Halen, Right Now)

So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating/Can't find a good reason, can't find hope to believe in/...You can't change the state of the nation we just need/ some motivation...So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating(Sum41 Still Waiting)

Classic Dums frozen feeders

I know you guys would just love to bury the forum in more rhetoric, but its getting tiresome. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Do you ever get any new material? Since you guys are so well respected and knowledgable, you should be sharing some of your infinate wisdom rather than using this forum to "flame on".

I thought that "high contrast dumerils" was a little small for an 02', but you didn't even breed it yourself so who knows how old it really is? Of course 02' without a month, could mean anything from 2-years-zero-months to 2-years-11-months. Since my memory isn't so good, maybe you could enlighten me and repost it on the classifieds?

Making a sweeping statement that Dumerils grow at a linear rate of 8" per year is somewhat misinformed. As I'm sure you know, boas grow on a logrithmic scale, that's exponential growth. I'm basing the following on my limited experience, which includes 23 Dumerils from my own female, Sandy, who produced in 2000(11) and 2002(13), didn't keep all of them, but kept tabs on most. 12 other Dumerils babies bought through wholesalers. And of course my mature adult 1.2 bought in early 00', value $900.
Baby Dumerils born were around 16-18 inches.
Through the 1st year 8-10 inch growth. Mean size..26".
2nd 12-14 inches.. Mean size...39"
3rd 18-20 inches.. Mean size... 58", breeding size for Males
Males tend to slack off pretty fast at this point. Growing 12"-14" each sucessive year.
Females shouldn't be bred at this size, since they only weigh 8-10 pounds.
4th 16-18 inches.. Mean size for females... 75"
Female Dumerils reach an ideal weight at this time, 12-14 lbs. Breeding them before this is unethical and will end up only producing slugs and premature offspring.
Later-
Matt Schubarth
Pet Nebula
2100 Stephens #116
Missoula, Montana 59801
406 541 9929

What you just tried to use to slam us is still funny! You are the one that put the animal up as DATA for growth averages. If you THOUGHT it was small for it's age, why did you not discuss this PRIOR to the purchase, or anytime thereafter? As far as your babies you kept dibs on, in your photogallery, you pointed out that you kept only the ONE from that litter. Expecting us to believe you kept full tabs on the babies you also sold is pretty ignorant. I for one, don't buy for a minute you kept any solid records on how these animals were kept and subsequently fed. And not cutting and copying your post to keep referencing, it seems your stating dumerils growth rate actually accelerates as they mature??? I also think Jason was being sarcastic towards you in regards to the 8" per year growth rate. And although your correct, for once, dumerils grow at various rates, the original intent of the persons question was...what is AVERAGE...you know, 10 animals grow at different rates, you add them up, divide them, get the AVERAGE number, and define it as the AVERAGE. And repeat, repeat, repeat....I think it was you that came back and started a NEW thread to start up more FLAMING, but it was deleted! Now, we generally haven't repeated anything, rather we have to keep jumping from one thing to another as anytime your pinned down on a point you tried to make, you avoid it and start up something new. SO, yeah, we have to keep asking this, bringing up that, and going after the next thing. Well, I think Jason is waitin for me to make dinner and get his clothes ready for work tomorrow, so I better run before he gets upset with me...LOL, from the "old guy" to your "wife" I'll never hear the end of this one Jason!!! Take care!

3rd 18-20 inches.. Mean size... 58", breeding size for Males
Males tend to slack off pretty fast at this point. Growing 12"-14" each sucessive year.

Sorry, had to cut and paste this portion of your guide...So, umm...do they ever stop growing at a rate of 12-14" each successive year? Cuz, they be reaching your maximum size for a dumerils pert darn quick! And, help me out on this one...you know how fishermen say they can step on an 11" fish to make it 12" so it's legal??? So, if 58" is breeding size for a male, can I step on my proven breeders that are just 4' so they'll breed for me? Wait, DOH! They've already bred, but you just said breeding size is 58". And this one male, is over 15 years old, and he's not sticking to this successive growth of a foot or more a year, what's up with that??? Starting to see where the term average comes into play, and why most people tend to associate the term when they inform others of how big an animal needs to be to breed? IF...I was a newbie and thought you the dumerils expert...I'd be waiting a LONG time for my males to reach this "breeding size" of 58" long, and subsequently not introducing them to my females because some "expert" told me breeding size was 58". You state way too many things as concrete....THIS is breeding size, THIS means it's a cross, THIS means it's not a cross. Since there seems to be a lot of crosses in your mind, tell me the benefit of crossing a 1,000 dollar baby(average) with a 100 dollar baby(average) and selling them off as the 100 dollar babies? Wouldn't the scam work the other way??? And people would be showing off pics of "mad. ground boas" they paid a grand for???? C Ya!

finished the laundry yet?????

He didnt need to discuss it dude, my ad stated it was a yearling he knew what he was buying, of course now he keeps saying well you didnt produce it, he didnt even know that till after he received it. After he received it(on the 9th I think) he asked me for backgound info(on the 16th) I told him the truth I bought a group of babies last year and that was the best of the group I was going to hold for new blood. He knows what it is, due to its size it just didnt fit his story below.

ANyway back to laundry.
Boy are we going to have some fun with you at Tinley LMAO!
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Jason & Danica
Don't wanna wait 'til tomorrow Why put it off another day? One by one, little problems Build up, and stand in our way. Oh One step ahead, one step behind it Now ya gotta run to get even Make future plans I'll dream about yesterday, hey! Come on turn, turn this thing around (Right now) Hey! It's your tomorrow (Right now) Come on, it's everything (Right now) Catch your magic moment (Right now) Catch your magic moment Do it right here and now Do it right here and now, IT MEANS EVERYTHING (Van Halen, Right Now)

So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating/Can't find a good reason, can't find hope to believe in/...You can't change the state of the nation we just need/ some motivation...So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating(Sum41 Still Waiting)

Classic Dums frozen feeders

LOL

"Baby Dumerils born were around 16-18 inches.
Through the 1st year 8-10 inch growth. Mean size..26".
2nd 12-14 inches.. Mean size...39"
3rd 18-20 inches.. Mean size... 58", breeding size for Males
Males tend to slack off pretty fast at this point. Growing 12"-14" each sucessive year.
Females shouldn't be bred at this size, since they only weigh 8-10 pounds.
4th 16-18 inches.. Mean size for females... 75"

Now this is from a thread below

I have 3, 2 year old Dumerils. The smallest one is around 32", he's one I just bought. The largest is around 40", got him from a great customer(Mike T).. I know feeds his snakes very well. And a girl from my own crew that is around 36". She's pictured below. I've fed her moderately, every 10 days on average.
Later-"

Now I am wondering aside from the 3 animals he bought as adults, he has 3 animals above 30inches one bought within the last few weeks and the other according to email sometime recently from Philly(is Mike T in philly?). #1 where are all the animals that fill in the growth chart between 39 inches at 2yrs old and the final entry at 75 inches at 4yrs. #2 Since he hasnt raised any aside from his one female he kept from the 02 batch did he make up 2yrs worth of growth rates? I dont know about you but I dont for a second believe he kept track of the 11 babies from the 2000 litter. Kind of makes ya wonder........

Oh sorry dude you know I gotta razz ya a bit LOL
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Jason & Danica
Don't wanna wait 'til tomorrow Why put it off another day? One by one, little problems Build up, and stand in our way. Oh One step ahead, one step behind it Now ya gotta run to get even Make future plans I'll dream about yesterday, hey! Come on turn, turn this thing around (Right now) Hey! It's your tomorrow (Right now) Come on, it's everything (Right now) Catch your magic moment (Right now) Catch your magic moment Do it right here and now Do it right here and now, IT MEANS EVERYTHING (Van Halen, Right Now)

So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating/Can't find a good reason, can't find hope to believe in/...You can't change the state of the nation we just need/ some motivation...So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating(Sum41 Still Waiting)

Classic Dums frozen feeders

I was born and raised in Drexel Hill just outside of Philly and yes this one came from me and was originally from Philadephia Zoo stock now I am sure they have kept records of there off spring but I do not have any with me .Now I have been reading this !@#$$%^ for days and weeks now but my question or opinion is I know Matts stuff and have seen my share of collections so I can tell you he has nice stuff .I ask you can we get back to sharing knowledge and less he said she said @##$% I gotta tell you I enjoy reading this forum but if his opinion is not yours SO WHAT ....OPINIONS ARE LIKE !@#$$%%^^ everybody has one.Lets get back to the important stuff......LEARNING!!!!!!!!!Drop me a e-mail if you want to chat but otherwise lets keep to the good stuff.............
Mike

did you obtain this animal from the Philly zoo?
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Jason & Danica
Don't wanna wait 'til tomorrow Why put it off another day? One by one, little problems Build up, and stand in our way. Oh One step ahead, one step behind it Now ya gotta run to get even Make future plans I'll dream about yesterday, hey! Come on turn, turn this thing around (Right now) Hey! It's your tomorrow (Right now) Come on, it's everything (Right now) Catch your magic moment (Right now) Catch your magic moment Do it right here and now Do it right here and now, IT MEANS EVERYTHING (Van Halen, Right Now)

So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating/Can't find a good reason, can't find hope to believe in/...You can't change the state of the nation we just need/ some motivation...So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating(Sum41 Still Waiting)

Classic Dums frozen feeders

The reptile curator would come in to the shop I worked out and bring his extras to the manager who ran the and owned the shop his name was Steve and I do not remember his last name .I had always liked them so I bought one.I moved out to montana and he came with me.Matt shop opened up over a year ago and so when he got some salmon boas the deal was done.When his female drops I do want a one of them because I really like them.You can trust me when I tell you finding a good reptile shop around here has been tough till he opened up .I must say I enjoy the forum and even at 44 thias year I can eat up all your guys knowledge and pick thru it for what works for me .I do not know you but like the stuff you have I hope that all the extra stuff can end I could tell you I will give Matt a good beating but he may lock the store when I get there and though I am sure my wife would like that I would go crazy...
Mike in the big sky country

The reason I asked is I was freinds with some of the guys from the reptile house at the Philly zoo. I used to live in Allentown and I know they stopped breeding their Dumerils in the mid 90's. When I left in 2001 they had no more intentions of breeding them. So I find it curious how this 2002 animal just sprung up from "philly zoo" stock considering the animals would have to been bred in 2001 when I was still in contact with a couple guys in the reptile house.

Anyway if you can run rings around us with your knowledge I hope you can talk some sense into him prior to him giving the poor info he has been here to someone and getting them in trouble.
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Jason & Danica
Don't wanna wait 'til tomorrow Why put it off another day? One by one, little problems Build up, and stand in our way. Oh One step ahead, one step behind it Now ya gotta run to get even Make future plans I'll dream about yesterday, hey! Come on turn, turn this thing around (Right now) Hey! It's your tomorrow (Right now) Come on, it's everything (Right now) Catch your magic moment (Right now) Catch your magic moment Do it right here and now Do it right here and now, IT MEANS EVERYTHING (Van Halen, Right Now)

So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating/Can't find a good reason, can't find hope to believe in/...You can't change the state of the nation we just need/ some motivation...So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating(Sum41 Still Waiting)

Classic Dums frozen feeders

Well if he got them from Steve and the last name has not come to me yet Steve had some stuff at his home and I would bet they were the ones he got at the philly zoo.Which now thinking about it makes sense because I am thinking they might get a bit hissy about him selling zoo stuff to a shop.I do remeber him bringing the firat one I saw in about 1994 so that does jive with what you remember.Have you ever been to the Cape May zoo retile house before the old one burnt down?As far as who is right or wrong with info as I have said I have seen his stuff and I think it is quite nice and having looked at your website you have some great stuff too.I think it is up to the person reading it to figure out what is right or wrong or what will work for them.I am tired of reading the extra @##$$% from both sides and just want to get back to the reading the forum without getting a headache.

Mike in Montana

I apologize for that that first paragraph. I don’t know what I was thinking last night. It read totally differently to me last night, Late I guess.

Anyway I think calling that animal “zoo stock” is a stretch. The reason the philli zoo stopped breeding them was due to inbreeding. They had related stock and didn’t want to inbred it was the curator who made the call so I have a very hard time believing he was breeding and selling them on the side after making that call. I forget how they found out the animals were related but there was a story behind that as well. Also there is a huge difference between the zoo stock and some animals he may have picked up anywhere for his personal collection. In reality that animal is really “steve stock” if it was steve the curator who sold it to the store. One of the reasons I spoke to those guys about all this is because I was sold an adult pair of dumerils as philli zoo stock back in 97 I think. I wanted to see what I could find out about the linage. After speaking to them I highly doubt the ones I was sold were actually from zoo stock. Never have they sold offspring into the private sector and while their breeding program was successful they never mass produced dumerils to the point they had to just dump them and lost track of them.

I don’t know about the laws concerning Philly but I do know I was told about one of the local zoos here. They had called me because they were having some problems with their dumerils and wanted some help. Anyway we went up and while there took a look at all the “behind the scenes” stuff. They had some Mad Ground Boas they produced in the zoo. A couple were being sent to another zoo and the rest had a permanent home there. I offered to buy some and what they told me was due to federal regulation they were not allowed to sell offspring into the private sector. This wasn’t a supervisor or curator so he may have had his state and fed regulations mixed up but he if was correct and it was federal regs that would also apply to any other zoo out there. I know there has been some zoo stock listed for sale here or there from various zoos. A guy I knew back home had a friend at the Toronto Zoo. At one point they had been breeding Culviers Dwarf Caimans. They produced so many they stopped the breeding program. They still had males and females caged together so even after they ceased the program they continued to get eggs. These eggs they literally threw in the trash can. So this guys buddy grabbed some out of the trash on his way home one day took them and hatched them. So with that I can see some “zoo stock” hitting the private sector but their not tossing live baby boas in the trash. I guess what I am getting at it If getting zoo stock was a simply thing wed all be fighting for it. The records the zoos keep on their animals and their linage, original locality etc is incredible. IMO not all zoo stock are the best looking animals, but to have that “pedigree” so to speak on your animals would be priceless.

In any event I wouldn’t go around calling those zoo stock without the proper paperwork. If they actually did come from the curator Id bet money they were from his personal animals and not from the zoo. Granted he would have more flexibility to bring animals home from the zoo then anyone else but I doubt he stopped the zoos breeding program and then turned around and bred them in his home just to sell to pet shops.
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Jason & Danica
Don't wanna wait 'til tomorrow Why put it off another day? One by one, little problems Build up, and stand in our way. Oh One step ahead, one step behind it Now ya gotta run to get even Make future plans I'll dream about yesterday, hey! Come on turn, turn this thing around (Right now) Hey! It's your tomorrow (Right now) Come on, it's everything (Right now) Catch your magic moment (Right now) Catch your magic moment Do it right here and now Do it right here and now, IT MEANS EVERYTHING (Van Halen, Right Now)

So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating/Can't find a good reason, can't find hope to believe in/...You can't change the state of the nation we just need/ some motivation...So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating(Sum41 Still Waiting)

Classic Dums frozen feeders

Well that all makes perfect sense to me .i knew he worked there and I am sure the manager took liberties with all the extra stuff but as for when I sold it to Matt I never even told him that stuff because of some of the very reasons you state.I still think they are just an awesome boa .So did you ever go to the Cape May Zoo??
Mike in Montana

No I have never been to any of the jersey zoos. When I lived in Allentown I commuted to bell meade, we owned a hardware store there and I hated the jersey traffic so I avoided jersey at all costs aside from work LOL I couldnt ever figure out the raods in jersey either one way this way two way that way, cant make a left turn here LOL what all did they have at cape may?
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Jason & Danica
Don't wanna wait 'til tomorrow Why put it off another day? One by one, little problems Build up, and stand in our way. Oh One step ahead, one step behind it Now ya gotta run to get even Make future plans I'll dream about yesterday, hey! Come on turn, turn this thing around (Right now) Hey! It's your tomorrow (Right now) Come on, it's everything (Right now) Catch your magic moment (Right now) Catch your magic moment Do it right here and now Do it right here and now, IT MEANS EVERYTHING (Van Halen, Right Now)

So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating/Can't find a good reason, can't find hope to believe in/...You can't change the state of the nation we just need/ some motivation...So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating(Sum41 Still Waiting)

Classic Dums frozen feeders

What about the circles they are just a blast....get a running start and enter...what fun...They had tortoises .boxies a burm and my memory fails me as to all the stuff it is a donation zoo and quite big.....the reptile house burnt down a few years ago and I have not seen the new reptile house yet.It was great in the middle eighties as you could get dripped on by the giraffe at the zoo before people started feeding to many extras then they started to push them back from the visitors .I worked in wildwood new jersey for about 4 yrs on the boardwalk.
ahhh moemories.......
Mike in Montana

Stop trying to play dumb, enough people seen that ad I dont need to repost it, you I and a ton of other people know that ad plainly stated it was a yearling.

"I thought that "high contrast dumerils" was a little small for an 02', but you didn't even breed it yourself so who knows how old it really is?"
Well that would be because I told you what info I have on the animal when you asked for it, do I need to post that email? You know it was an 03, it was sold to you as a yearling the ad planly said so, but for some reason you lied because you knew it would shot a hole in the miss infomation you posted

"Making a sweeping statement that Dumerils grow at a linear rate of 8" per year is somewhat misinformed." No its not its called sarcasim, I wasnt serious

"Females shouldn't be bred at this size, since they only weigh 8-10 pounds." Oh really well you need to tell that to my girls who range from 4ft-6ft and weigh less then what you stated there and produce just fine. My 2.5 pound 7yr old dwarf would love to hear that.

"Female Dumerils reach an ideal weight at this time, 12-14 lbs. Breeding them before this is unethical and will end up only producing slugs and premature offspring." Oh really humm I guess I have unethically produced maybe 50% of the offspring I have ever produced then. Do you know anything at all about the goegraphical and climate differances within their range? and the differances in the animals within their range? Please tell me about their habitat. Do all dumerils in Madagascar average the same size? Because once I here your thoery I will take your adivce and "you should be sharing some of your infinate wisdom" also answer the 3 questions below please.

Were not trying to inflam anything, only trying to show a show you for what your are, someone who is spreading alot of BS

Also just answer these three questions and Ill stop bring up stuff from before
What experaince do you have with Mad ground boas? Have you ever bred them? Have you ever seen them in person(zoos dont count) if so what sizes were they? and please unlike your referances to that yearling answer them honestly.

I hope your answer the questions above so we can clear some thing up here although I doubt ya will
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Jason & Danica
Don't wanna wait 'til tomorrow Why put it off another day? One by one, little problems Build up, and stand in our way. Oh One step ahead, one step behind it Now ya gotta run to get even Make future plans I'll dream about yesterday, hey! Come on turn, turn this thing around (Right now) Hey! It's your tomorrow (Right now) Come on, it's everything (Right now) Catch your magic moment (Right now) Catch your magic moment Do it right here and now Do it right here and now, IT MEANS EVERYTHING (Van Halen, Right Now)

So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating/Can't find a good reason, can't find hope to believe in/...You can't change the state of the nation we just need/ some motivation...So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating(Sum41 Still Waiting)

Classic Dums frozen feeders

Not that either of them need my input or defense, but Paul and Jason both provide a wealth of knowledge and experience to this forum...not to mention the years experience both have with Dumerils boas. And no, I don't know either personally nor even reside in the same state. It's a simple statement of fact.

You stated your experience breeding Dumerils with the following, "I'm basing the following on my limited experience, which includes 23 Dumerils from my own female, Sandy, who produced in 2000(11) and 2002(13)" So you've produced 23 Dumerils neonates. Do you have a clue how many these two guys have produced? I'll tell you it's well over 23 each. By your example I should be an 'expert' boa breeder because I've produced 31 Bci neonates (18 in 2000, 13 this year). That few offspring hardly makes anyone an 'expert', it just means we had a couple of good years. What works for me and mine may not work for everyone, or even for the same snakes every time. I know Jason has produced hundreds of Dumerils offspring by now because I've been drooling over them for at least 5-6 years. You don't have that kind of record without knowing what you are doing.

The only 'flaming & rhetoric' I'm seeing in this thread is started by you with your comments of their 'envy' and calling Paul Jason's 'wife'. What do they have to be envious of in a small time hobbiest breeder? And no, saying you're a small time hobbiest is not an insult, as I am as well. I'm not running a business, I'm just breeding the animals I have that I like. Lastly, before you cite arbitrary weights and lengths of appropriate 'ethical' breeding sizes, perhaps you should do more research. Not all dumerils get large - the sizes are quite variable. By your reckoning, I will never be able to breed my approximately 5' long, five year old female because she doesn't meet your weight requirements...and frankly never will. At even just 8-10 pounds, my female would look like an overstuffed sausage...not a healthy condition for ANY snake, much less one you plan to breed. And for the record, I'll be putting my pair together this year. She may produce, she may not, but it sure isn't a matter of ethics that I'm breeding a five year old snake that doesn't meet your standard.

Raven

Mike in Montana is the only one making any sense. If our kids acted like this we would tell them to knock it off. It's time to get back to the good stuff. Everyone has made their point.

I agree I would like for things to get back to normal its just gotten a little personal since he decided to insult ourselves and animals. I still would like to know what Matts background with ground boas is, since he took the liberty of judging other peoples dumerils and claiming it was due to his science that he refuses to comment further on.
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Jason & Danica
Don't wanna wait 'til tomorrow Why put it off another day? One by one, little problems Build up, and stand in our way. Oh One step ahead, one step behind it Now ya gotta run to get even Make future plans I'll dream about yesterday, hey! Come on turn, turn this thing around (Right now) Hey! It's your tomorrow (Right now) Come on, it's everything (Right now) Catch your magic moment (Right now) Catch your magic moment Do it right here and now Do it right here and now, IT MEANS EVERYTHING (Van Halen, Right Now)

So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating/Can't find a good reason, can't find hope to believe in/...You can't change the state of the nation we just need/ some motivation...So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating(Sum41 Still Waiting)

Classic Dums frozen feeders

This was suppsed to be in my prior post I dont know why it got cut out anyway Rav I apreciate what you said I think you hit the nail right on the head within your post thanks! Jason
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Jason & Danica
Don't wanna wait 'til tomorrow Why put it off another day? One by one, little problems Build up, and stand in our way. Oh One step ahead, one step behind it Now ya gotta run to get even Make future plans I'll dream about yesterday, hey! Come on turn, turn this thing around (Right now) Hey! It's your tomorrow (Right now) Come on, it's everything (Right now) Catch your magic moment (Right now) Catch your magic moment Do it right here and now Do it right here and now, IT MEANS EVERYTHING (Van Halen, Right Now)

So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating/Can't find a good reason, can't find hope to believe in/...You can't change the state of the nation we just need/ some motivation...So am I still waiting for this world to stop hating(Sum41 Still Waiting)

Classic Dums frozen feeders