Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
Click for ZooMed
Click here to visit Classifieds

Something that changed my life

reptle2 Aug 05, 2004 10:01 PM

I have been breeding Burms for 10 years now. I have had then as pets for 20 years. You would think that someone who has been with these amazeing snakes for as long as I have would, by now, have the knowlege and experiance to know what to and not to do. As a rgeneral rule I do , but even people with all the exp. in the world make "misstakes". In 1999 I had 13 burms in my collection with verrious other pythons and boas. It happened in the middle of june, around 5am. I had been working on a drywall job for about 3 days trying to get the work done fast. It was feeding day and I had gotten up late, so I was in a hurry. I had almost every snake in seperate cages except for 2 sets of male burms that were all around 15-16 feet. Normaly I would pull one snake out of the cage and feed them both seperately, but with me running late I desided to feed all the indivial snakes first. When I moved to the cages with the doubles I disided to just toss in a couple of rabbits and got to work. Well as yall can gess, it didnt work out that way....lol. I went ahead and tossed in the rabbits to the first 2 sets with no problem. When I got to my last cage I reached in and tossed a rabbit to a snake in the back of the, as I was pulling my hand out of the cage I was grabed by the snake in the front of the cage. The snake that grabed me was 15' and around 150lbs. The snake instanly through 3 coils around my forarm and pulled me into the cage. First thing I could think of was to get out of the cage, so I fought my way out of the cage and half way to my feet. The snake then desided to wrap the first thing he could grab, wich happened to be a floor support. Thats were the fun began. He started to pull me into the pole and i knew that if he was able to get me there I would be donefore. The tug-o-war began. It lasted about a min. (it seamed like an hour), then there was a loud "POP" and extream pain then nothing. When I came too the snake had let go of my arm and worked his way back into the cage. My shoulder had been dislocated, elbo was hyper extended, and I has 5 little bones in my hand was broken. I was worried that if I still didnt show up to work I wouldnt be able to pay the bills. I went to work, hung drywall for 12 hours (poorly though) and when the day was done I couldnt drive home. My partner took me to the Hospital were we found out what all was wrong with my arm. After this lovely experiance I desided that I would have a friend come over on feeding day and give me a hand. Because of this "short cut" i took i can no longer lift heavy items (over 50lbs) with my left arm.
I gess the moral of this long story would have to be.....

No matter what dont take these awsome snakes to lightly. Always pay attension to even the little details. Dont take ANY short-cuts.

Thank you for takeing time to read this.

C. Stutz

Replies (11)

stephen Aug 05, 2004 10:52 PM

very interesting....eh..you learned your lesson..This personally have never happened to me..but i have herd stories about a reticulated python at a zoo and stuff..but i had a crazy bcc. that was a complete sphyco(sp?) wrap around my arm..it was about 8 foot and 30 pounds. in my experiance..first when dealing with a snake that size ALWAYS HAVE SOME ONE THERE JUST INCASE..seems to me you did not follow that rule..but if that happens just grap some aclchohal or HOT or warm water and just poor it on the animal..i gurrentee it will let go immediatly..well take it easy and would love to see some picture of your animals

reptle2 Aug 06, 2004 08:01 AM

That is some realy good advice but there is a flaw. If you are alone like i was in this case you probly wont be able to do anytning but try to get away. If it had been a smaller snake i would have been ok but a 150lbc 15' snake wrapt around you and a floor support you are not going to be able to move........lol........I know

Thanks for takeing the time to read that story i posted

C. Stutz

stephen Aug 06, 2004 02:48 PM

Always keep the booze handy next to the cgaes...I own some large animals..i always keep booze next to the tank just incase..but i always hook my animals out..its much more safer..no matter what you do feed out of the cage or feed in the cage..there gunna act the same either way..cuz there thinkin there gunna get fed..nice tortous with the box trtles on top.

Seliah Aug 06, 2004 10:51 AM

Yep... you got schooled alright. ^.^

Mistakes happen, but you got dang lucky with this one. My father had a 17-foot rock at one point, he didn't follow the 'never handle when alone' rule either... he paid for it dearly, he had to have his hand almost completely sewn back to the wrist, snake had almost torn it right off. I was about 8 at the time, and lemme tellya, running in with a big bucket of ice water to throw on a snake and then having to scurry to find someone to take your dad in with his hand hangin' off the wrist is NOT something any 8 year old wants to have to do.

Surprising enough, that did NOT scare me away from the critters for good, like most folks insisted it would. LOL Anyway, the way I handle the big ones, is never handle them unless there is a second person with me.. period ... no matter what ...

And when feeding... I handle this as a three person job. (I can get away with this - my brother adores the things but can't own any - landlord won't let him - so he's over here all the time handling them. lol) One person (usually my brother) grabs the food, the other person opens the cage and the third person helps the second one to get the big ol' snake out of his enclosure.

Note, that the guy handling the food has already gone WELL out of site of snake or the other two, and is waiting in the far room of the house. (We feed ours in the bath tub, actually. lol)

The two carrying the snake bring him into the tub, the one with the tail end gets the tail in first, and lets go, the one with the head end, then releases the head and steps back. Then and only then does the third one bring in the food, and as our rock gets a little excitable at feeding time (soon as she spots the food), we don't take any pains to be careful about tossing it in to her. He comes in with food, door is promptly closed shut, and food is then literally THROWN into tub - on the end farthest away from the snake's head.

We had an experience with this one, when she was about five foot long, where my husband was fighting to try and get the rat out of it's box, and she actually jumped straight up to try and grab it... well that's why we throw it in, now, and away from the head. The sudden jar is enough to keep the rat from claw-catching on the box, or whatever we're using to bring it in, and the other end from the head is that much farther for the snake to go if she strikes and believe me we are both VERY good at getting the heck out of the way of a strike. LOL

Anyhow.. just some tips.. meant more for the peeps that are new to the snake handling routine than you per se, and sorry for the length of the post. The method works for us... keeps everything contained in the one room... the nice thing about using the bathroom is that A) the door locks tight, B) there is NOwhere for the snake to go if she bolts out of the tub (has never done it to date, but you never know), and C) if for some reason one of us screws up and we have an 8ft rock's jaws clamped around our arm, the shower head up above that rock can come on with bitter cold water in an eyeblink.

Also the person who tosses the rat in, DOES NOT HANDLE the snake, PERIOD, for at LEAST 24 hours after hand-washing.
-----
1 Ball Python
1 Rock Python
1 Bullsnake
5 Cats

Love 'em all ...

BrentB Aug 08, 2004 12:10 AM

Hey im curious about how big your Rock Python is. I have a little guy right now, love the little guy, are interesting captives. Whats your experience with keeping the Rock you have?

Seliah Aug 08, 2004 10:56 AM

The Rock that we have is about half grown, roughly, give or take a little. She's seven and a half, closer to eight feet now.

Experience with her... LOL. We brought her home as a rescue initially (i'm a sucker that way I guess. LOL) from a pet store that had just gotten her in that morning and did not know how to handle her. They specialized in colubrids and boas... and never shipped anything in that would grow beyond 5-8 feet. So they really had no clue how to handle this one.. when she was brought in, she was about 4 feet long,and had not been cared for properly. My guess is someone bought her somewhere, did not know what they were getting, and she was too much to handle for them, so they got rid of her. She was bone-stick thin, emaciated, and the tip of nose, right on the front of her mouth, was raw from where she had been pushing and rubbing at the meshed screen she was in prior. (I know it was mesh, because the pattern was 'set in' on her mouth. You could see it clearly.)

She was brought in as a trade... the person who brought her in traded her for a different, smaller snake. We've had our ups and downs with her, but overall it's gone well. We had to re-tame her in the beginning. She had gone semi-wild, by the time she was brought into the pet store, and the staff there wouldn't even stick there hand into her tank except to drop food in and then pick it back out when she ignored it.

I never had to assist-feed her, she just needed to be in a proper environment that was comfortable, and once that happened, she started eating the way any Rock should. She'd eat you out of house and home if you let her. LOL We don't let her.

Took her to the vet to have the mouth looked at and cared for, power-fed her a bit in the beginning to get her weight up to where it should be. Once those two problems were cared for, she was good to go, and we only had to worry about taming her. We did it, but it took a while. ^.^ She tagged me a couple of times, but they were never bites to hurt, they were basically just little nips that amounted to 'leave me the heck alone.'

Handled her 5-8 times a day, in the beginning we'd only have her out for a couple of minutes at a time - never more than she could tolerate - and when she started getting jumpy, we would put her back in her tank. This went on for a while, with the time out getting longer and longer... at this point she's kitten tame for us, but heavens forbid anyone else handles her. LOL If you show ANY fear to her whatsoever, she grabs onto that. ^.^

Something that my Rock responds well to, I don't know if this is just mine or what, but we have always made sure, that when we put her back in her enclosure, she is set to the bottom of it very gently, so there is no jarring 'drop' when she goes in. We put her back in head first, and let her glide the rest of her in, supporting her mid-body and tail as she goes in and then taking the tail tip and making sure the end of her lands on the surface of her cage gently. She's always responded well to that, whereas if she suddenly 'lands' she gets a little spooked.

We learned very early on how territorial she is. ^.^ And do not ever do anything with the tank itself while she is in there. She does not appreciate it, and makes sure you know her objections to it. LOL This is also the primary reason she is fed out of tank, though when she moves to the next size up enclosure, she will move to being fed in-tank. While she is eating, one person handles cleaning her tank and putting in fresh wood chips and water, etc. Try that with her in it and you will get tagged. LOL

This is not a fool-proof method, but we've never gotten tagged doing it 'this' way, she just gets in, and puffs herself up, you can see she gets pissed the second she spots changes having been made to her tank, then does warp nine around the cage, sticking her nose into everything there, and examining *everything* closely. She'll pause every few seconds to turn her head and glare out of the glass at you and make sure she has your eye to express just how 'displeased' she is with you. LOL

They CAN be aggressive, if they are not handled properly, and when she is in shed, she is somewhat aggressive, so while she is shedding, we leave her alone, except to check on her and make sure everything is alright, we'll do that about once every few days during a shed. She gets aggressive if she's scared, she gets aggressive if she's uncomfortable, she gets aggressive if she's angry. Aside from that, she's a very tame P. Sebae.

The one major incident we did have with her... she was about 5 foot long at the time, my husband had been giving her some 'out' time, was holding her and just giving her some attention. Anyway, he turned his head away for a second - that's all it took. She bolted off of his arm and made a mad dash for the old-style radiator that was on the wall about a foot away from where he'd been sitting with her. Well, he tried to catch her, but no good. She managed to get herself under and behind the radiator, and was NOT coming out.

She sat right there soaking up the heat *LOL* and anything he tried to get her out from behind there she basically responded with a top-notch hiss, and pushed herself further out of his reach. When she'd had enough of him trying to pull her out of there, she then got out from behind the radiator, with him sitting right in front of the radiator, and he didn't see her move, just suddenly she wasn't there anymore. What she'd done, is gotten herself behind his desk, and worked herself up INSIDE of the desk, underneath the bottom drawer of it. We pulled the drawers out of the desk, she wasn't in sight, but when we pulled the piece of wood that formed the sourface underneath the bottom drawer, she was happily curled up in there, and promptly wrapped her tail around the drawer's support beam when he again tried to pull her out of there.

So... he left her with me, and went out to the pet store to get a feeder mouse (she was on large mice at this point), and brought it home. It was one that was already smelling of blood, as it had just been in a fight with another mouse, and the cut on it's head was still open. So he tossed that into the little space she'd claimed, and while she went for the mouse, I unwrapped her tail (she'd only thrown one coil around the support thankfully) and we pulled her out, mouse and all.

She wasn't thrilled, but as she had the mouse halfway down her gullet, there was precious little she could do about biting or striking, so she satisfied herself with glaring daggers at the two of us instead. No - he does not sit or stand anywhere near a radiator when he has her out now. *LOL*

On feeding days, she can get a little jumpy, and we have a certain method we follow every time for that reason, it keeps her more or less calmed, and gets her fed. When she's out and being handled, though, she's very curious, examines everything she can get to, will curl herself around our shoulders, with her 'anchor' under the right arm. It's always the right arm, she never anchors under the left arm for some reason. But once she's got her anchor there, then she'll just move around and examine everything. And if there is another person in the room, she absolutely MUST have their attention as well. She soaks up individual attention given to her, and has been known to sit with her lower body on one person, and have her upper body on the second person in the room. If someone else is in the room and not giving her 'centre of attention' status, she DOES rectify that immediately. LOL

We have a healthy respect for what she can do - she takes down small Colossals right now, about once a week without any trouble at all - but there is no fear. ^.^ I work in a small pet store at this point. I'm the reptile handler now. LMAO The rest of the staff, save the owner, wants nothing to do with the reptiles, and are too afraid of them to do anything with them. One of the other girls on the staff is coming around slowly, but it's taken me a few months just to get her to be able to stand in the same room while I've got one of the hatchlings out - I'd never have her in the room with me if I had the 6ft burm out. *LOL* She'd totally freak.

The other tricky thing with her, is when she outgrows her current environment, and we move her up to the next size enclosure. When that happens, you leave her ALONE for about three days, and you DO feed her in the tank, within the first day or so. Until she's been fed in the new enclosure, she will not calm, and she'll go semi-wild. (she did this with one of her moves, took us a little while to calm her down again) So when we do have to move her up to the next size enclosure, we make sure we have food for her, put her hidey and water bowl in it, then feed her in the tank. Once she's been fed, and digested for the most part, then we pull her out, and the other person puts a layer of wood chipsalong the bottom of it.

Now when she goes back in, she'll get peeved off because we messed with 'her' tank, but she doesn't go partly wild on us, and it's ONLY the territorial reaction to it, nothing more.

We named our Rock Ka, by the way. Fitting name for a creature this strong. ^.^ This is a recent picture of her...it's not great, I'm going to try and get a better one, hopefully in a few minutes I'll have a better picture to put up. This one you can barely see her - though you can see plenty of her coils, and her nosetip sticking out at the top between the coils and the hidey. ^.^
Image
-----
1 Ball Python
1 Rock Python
1 Bullsnake
5 Cats

Love 'em all ...

Antegy Aug 06, 2004 12:07 PM

Haven't there already been a number of discussions right here on this forum which have concluded with the majority of experienced keepers recommending against feeding out of the cage? That one thing alone is case and point the means by which a person sets him/herself up to be injured in a feeding accident.

I've been keeping large boids for almost fifteen years now, and while I still don't claim to have 'experienced' status, I will say that I've never had any issues with feeding my snakes in their enclosures. As a matter of fact, the only time I have ever had any kind of problem is when the animal was not in it's cage (actually a somewhat amusing story, albeit of serious nature).

I'm sorry to hear, and in more ways than one, whenever someone has a run-in with a large boid. Perhaps only education can help to prevent such things from happening in the first place.

And so, these forums are a very good place to start. Only problem is - how to get people to read these threads 'before' the mistakes are made...

It's too bad that the poor behavior of a few people in this and other forums has driven away the more experienced and helpful keepers. We would all do well to have the benefit of their experience and knowledge here again.

-----
----------------------------------------------
My personal site: www.antegy.com
----------------------------------------------
My Kingsnake.com Picture Gallery
----------------------------------------------
My photography on photo.net
----------------------------------------------
Me on myspace.com

Justin Stricklin Aug 06, 2004 12:31 PM

I am by no way an expert. I would never feed out of cage. I would never hold one that is over the 10 foot mark by my self and once they get over the 9 foot mark there will be alchol by the cage just in case. I will never take the shortcuts without an army backing me up lol.
-----
Justin

reptle2 Aug 06, 2004 03:03 PM

Ok, it seems that some have missed the hole piont of why I posted my story. I am trying to help the inexperianced by letting them know about my own mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. You may have had nothing bad happen o you as of yet but if you keep larger snakes long enough something is going to happen. I hope that by giveing my acounts of my mistakes that others will NOT follow in my footsteps. I dont think that the attitude given by one respondents was proper for the "spirit" of the post but, to each his own. I have always been able to learn from my mistakes and I hope by shareing them with you, You will too.

thanks Again

C. Stutz

Justin Stricklin Aug 06, 2004 04:03 PM

If you are talkign about me I appreciate all the info on any/all mistakes made by others. I plan on using hooks too. I do not as of et with my 7" one simply because the size is not dangerous if he did get a bad feeding response. Every chance that I get I read about mistakes and sucesses people have made(experienced people).
-----
Justin

Antegy Aug 06, 2004 04:24 PM

It was not my intention at all to convey a negative attitude in my reply (if you are speaking of me). Your post is an excellent example of what not to do - one that new keepers should definitely read before getting a large boid.

I think I may have been having a bad day while I wrote that at work earlier this afternoon. It did lack tact.

Again, I apologize. Please don't hesitate to post any other experiences you feel could help the herping community.

- Mark

>>Ok, it seems that some have missed the hole piont of why I posted my story. I am trying to help the inexperianced by letting them know about my own mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes. You may have had nothing bad happen o you as of yet but if you keep larger snakes long enough something is going to happen. I hope that by giveing my acounts of my mistakes that others will NOT follow in my footsteps. I dont think that the attitude given by one respondents was proper for the "spirit" of the post but, to each his own. I have always been able to learn from my mistakes and I hope by shareing them with you, You will too.
>>
>>thanks Again
>>
>>C. Stutz
>>

Site Tools