Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok...this message isn't THAT URGENT...but I just thought that I'd ask. Would it be better to apply the third coat of polyurethane AFTER I built the frame or BEFORE due to the fact that I'll be using silicone/aquarium sealant?

And make sure to use an oil-based poly for water dragons. Make sure to apply THIN coats and leave plenty of time for off-gassing. Can take weeks.

Excellent...I just happened to grab the oil-based poly and due to lack of funds...I have to spread it thinly...lol. It's gonna be a while before I go put them in it...so I'm not worried. Another question...I read on a previous post where you were talking about plexiglass compared to regular glass. I glass cheaper than plexi? What are the pros/cons of each?

one more thing...how many coats do you suggest (for the polyurethane)?

Within reason. I believe you have a long time to finish this cage so I'd recommend several thin coats rather than a few thick coats.

If the wood you are using is highly textured it might be worth it to put down several coats of water-based poly first to act as a filler. I've never tried this myself but have read about it on wood-working forums.

I agree with Chris, several coats is better then a few.. I have also used a water based coat when making furniture that was going to be around moisture and high humidity.. I usually put on 2 or 3 coats of the water base sanding between each coat and then put a couple added coats with a thorough sanding with 320 or finer sand paper to help give it a nice glass coat appearance..
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Randall L Turner Jr.
www.aircapitalconstrictors.com

one thing to keep in mind with clear coats and the types.

Depending on the base properties of the sealer you use sometimes more coats can make it softer! the water bases poly is nice as its easy clean up and low odor but also if water stands on it it will soften the finish on it.

The WoodKote product is a plastizied finish which is impervious to water( this is in a thread posted a few spots down and gives info on it )

Oils based poly's are harder but also more of a mess to clean up and has high smell to it

Lacquer based is harder and more durable then both the above

then you can get into the complex 2&3 stage coatings which are either 2-3 parts mixtures which can be pricy but are hellacisouly durable
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Buisnesses come and go everyday, what keeps you here is how you treated the customer the day before....Creating better ideas today then the day before while i dont claim to have invented the wheel... im just making that wheel roll a little better ... Edit this !www.junglehabitats.com and www.junglehabitats.com/forums/portal.php

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I've finished my third coating of an oil-based polyurethane. How will that stand up as water resistant? I have several months before I actually introduce my animals to the cage.

1/4" acrylic is more expensive than 1/4" glass (non-tempered).

In 1/8" acrylic/plexi is usually cheaper than 1/8" glass.

Please note that if you go to Home Depot and ask for Plexiglass they will sell you a low quality, generic acrylic. Plexiglass is a brand name but has practically become generic for acrylic. Sort of like saying you have a Jacuzzi when you really have another brand of hot tub.

The actual plexiglass is pretty good stuff.

Some Home Depot's may sell actual plexiglass, I don't know.

Comparing 1/4" acrylic of decent quality to normal 1/4" glass:

**Acrylic Pros:

Lighter

Shatter resistant

Easy to keep the edges buffed for glass track.

**Acrylic Cons:

Can yellow/warp over time

Not as escape proof in some applications

Scratches easily (but easy to polish)

If edges not properly polished it does not slide well on plastic glass track

**Glass Pros:

Cheap

Readily available

Scratch resistant

**Glass cons:

Can break

Hard to polish at home

Heavy

For some applications tempered glass is necessary. These comparisons then disapear, IMO.

I plan on using the acrylic for the sliding doors, on one side only. I'm mostly worried about warping. The cage itself is going to be no higher than 90 degrees Fahrenheit, but that's only at the point of the basking spot which I could easily put towards the back end of the enclosure. The average ambient temp within the enclosure is going to be 84-88 degrees. Would this pose a problem?

Double sliders can be a bit tricky with used on large cages.

Tall, narrow doors especially.

Temperature wise I think you'll be fine.

Junglehabitats will be the better person to ask about large double-sliders.

Ok just got your email on this heres my thoughts .

OK since a lizard is going in the cage i would say go with glass and due to the oarge size of the cage i would say go with glass....

Now heres some reasons why and chris hit on most of them

With a cage of that size even though acrylic is rather rigid on a door large as yours would be you are going to get flexing & warping in time .The flexing is just not to be avoided on a cage that size and waroing as you hit on due to heat will occur. Also with a lizard nature they are hell on acrylics due to a lizard for the most part is a foreger(sp) and while you can polish out somescratches a lizard can do a lot of destruction in a hrs time on plexi/acrylic or lexan.Nowif a lizard is able to get his frontlegs / head into the gap of the acrylic on a large door he can push his way between them i have personally seen this done on a cage that was only 4ft tall w/ 3 ft doors it was a argus monitor and IMHO they are a hell of a persistant animal they dig almost nonstop so and are powerful .

My friend had this cage and asked me to build him something BIG n NICE and something the argus wouldnt trash in amonths time this is what he got

that cage measures 7'x4'x7' and the doors are 5 ft tall and 3 ft wide 1/4 tempered glass. the track system is a KV sliding track that can be lifted out like other track systems can. If you want to do it one time and make it last by all means go with glass you will be happy you did chris hit the prosn cons well on the two .Now depending on the size of the actual doors you have on the cage willdepend on wether you need to use plastic tracks or something like i used on this cage . Plastic tracks will wear out under the weight of the heavier glass alot quicker and will be hard to open as the glass weighs about 3lbs per sq ft (actually 2.8) if we get picky. now thinkwith doors like on this unit that are 5x3 thats around 45 lbs per doors and that sliding on plastic will create ALOT of friction and drag when moveing and more then likely will be a pain in ur @ass lol to operate. the track system i used and like to use whn people want it nice is the KV system its a 3 pc setup that has a double U top channel , a H-channels in which the glass sets in onside ( w/ a rubber seal to hold it tight) and the bottom has clips with wheels that snap in the H channel.The wheels then roll on a track on the bottom forthe best wat to descibe it like a RR tack the wheels are concaved so they keep thereselfs on the track and they glide eaily even on a 45 door i can open them w one finger on the door.With this system you would need to make sure you have asufficent litterdamn to keep substrate out of thetrack as the wheels will snag up on it this cage has a 12" deep bottom so nothing gets in it .if you do choose to go with acrylic look for *Acrylite* its the higher quaility materials and is a little harder . I would suggest calling around to plastic suppliers etc in your area and sign shops as i dontthink lowes/ home depots carry that brand they carry a much lesser quaility of it and the protective coating is plastic which can get scratches in it easily even on there shelf . and ussaly there 2x4 1/4" is about $25 for a sheet that size where as most dealers you can pick up a 4x8 sheet of the acrlite for $75-80.00 and have replacemnt waiting depending on the size of your doors .

ermm ok i think i might have covered your questions if not let me know ill add moreto it lol . i just got in and have to get somethings squared away ill check back in a while
hope this helps you .
Alan
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Buisnesses come and go everyday, what keeps you here is how you treated the customer the day before....Creating better ideas today then the day before while i dont claim to have invented the wheel... im just making that wheel roll a little better ... Edit this !www.junglehabitats.com and www.junglehabitats.com/forums/portal.php

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Alan (it's Alan, right?),

Boy I really like that cage. It reminds me of something I've been contemplating.

I need to build a plant rack for my GF that is similar to that cage in that it will essentially be a series of face frames.

Normally I would use my bisquit joiner but the frame in question will be just a bit bigger than my 3' clamps can handle.

Also, rather than just a simple frame it will actually be more like an "8" with two openings, possibly three. Each opening will need to be perfectly square.

Instead of buying more clamps I'm considering buying a Kreg Pocket Hole Joiner. I saw an episode of "This Old House" and Norm was saying it was actually easier to keep the panels square with a Kreg Joiner vs. bisquits with clamps.

Curious to hear you opinion on this. One way or the other I need to buy something, whether it be more clamps or the Kregg Joiner.

Always nice to have a new toy

Oh yeah, the strength of the bisquits vs. the pocket hole joiner is not a huge concern with this project.

Thats how that cage is joined with the kreg jointer kit . otherwise it would never fit in his shop wide as it is . and its ALOT faster the biscuits cause you can finish all your wood and then drill the pocket holes and they use the SQ drive washer head screws they are a must using that kreg system to join wood reg bugle head screws will end up pulling throught the flat pocket surface made by the kreg machine . i seth the entire cage up using this method by myself in about 45 mins thats with the glass insyalled in it . i built the cage so the glass went into the corners with just enough room to use SS glass clips to fasten the glass to the panels once it was assembled this make the cage impossible for even the biggest baddaest monitor to shred the wood cause the only place there is open wood is the litter damn under the doors and i places a peaice of 1/8 plexi on that section to cover it its scrathed all to hell but the wood is in perfect shape behind it .
The kreg pocket hole joint in MY opinion is stronger then a biscuit joint that is the system i used in building cabinets and face frames for them just a dab of gorilla glue and screw it togethrr and go .
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Buisnesses come and go everyday, what keeps you here is how you treated the customer the day before....Creating better ideas today then the day before while i dont claim to have invented the wheel... im just making that wheel roll a little better ... Edit this !www.junglehabitats.com and www.junglehabitats.com/forums/portal.php

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Or that it was not permanently put together until assembled in the shop?

Regardless, thanks for the ringing endorsement.

Gorilla glue on the screw, between the joining panels, or both?

Thanks again.

yeah just a VERY VERY VERY MINUTE touch of the gorilla glue
the gorilla glue expands like 10x's so for a 3/4 x6 board you would need about a Qtips swipes worths if not you will be cleaning it for ever as it expands like foam
.

Yes the cage was broguht in in panels and assembled in the shop and can be unassemled in the same manner to be moved out . as a matter a fact the dissassembled it and moved it from the storefront window into the main isle and it now house jungle carpets in it
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Buisnesses come and go everyday, what keeps you here is how you treated the customer the day before....Creating better ideas today then the day before while i dont claim to have invented the wheel... im just making that wheel roll a little better ... Edit this !www.junglehabitats.com and www.junglehabitats.com/forums/portal.php

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edited signature file to remove advertising slogan. Please update accordingly. [phw 3/25/04]

I plan on using bolts and trunk locks to assemble/disassemble my cage...but what is the gorilla glue? What kind of sealer should I use between the permanent cracks of my frames (i.e. the spaces in between the permanently screwed boards)?

no post
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Randall L Turner Jr.
www.aircapitalconstrictors.com

When I go to measure the dimensions for the glass...how should I measure it...just a hair smaller than the actual distance between the tracks?

Have the track in hand and installed before you order the glass. It will come with instructions.

depends on the track you use .The track from rockler calls for the glass to be ithink 5/16 or 7/16's smaller then your verticle opening ( this is the plastic track)

the standard KV tack as on the cage i pictures the glass is 1" smaller then the actual verticle opening onf the door so if you have a 48" oprning the glass is goingto be 47"
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Buisnesses come and go everyday, what keeps you here is how you treated the customer the day before....Creating better ideas today then the day before while i dont claim to have invented the wheel... im just making that wheel roll a little better ... Edit this !www.junglehabitats.com and www.junglehabitats.com/forums/portal.php

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edited signature file to remove advertising slogan. Please update accordingly. [phw 3/25/04]