Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey all whats up? I have a 3 year old California Desert Tortoise that I got legally through an adoption. I've had him in an 80 gallon cage and now he's to big. I have a perfect spot outside to build a pen. My question is, if i wanted to get him a friend such as a Desert Box Turtle:Terrapene ornata luteola or Ornate Box Turtle: Terrapene ornata ornata which one would be the better choice ot be compatible together in the pen. Im in Southern California and I'm going to be making a desert set up for my tortoise. Which of the two would be a better choice all around. And what exactly is the difference? OR does my Cali Tort not even need a friend in the pen? WHAT WOULD BE GOOD FOR MY TORT?

David

The turtle would probably be for your sake.

I really don't think the DTs know one way or the other although they do show signs of the opposit when there is more than one present.

The Desert boxie is found throughout the southern protions of the DTs range so it is not a stretch that they can co-habitate. I wouldn't suggest this unless you have a big enough enclosure. Both chelonians can be agressive in a confined area.
-----
Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Hi
As it has been discussed several times on this forum, you should never mix species. This goes TRIPLE for mixing with any gopher torts especialy desert torts. Most desert torts carry the upper respitory disease syndrome even if they do not have any symptoms. I know your tort is young and has not been exposed to other desert torts, but there is evidense that this disease could be passed through from female to her eggs and her hatchlings.
I would even be very careful to ever house your tort with even any other desert tort, unless you have isolated the new animal for a year at least and observed it after coming out of hibernation, when they are most likely to show symptoms.
Also, most box torts are wild caught and it will probably infect your tort with several paracites. You would be playing with fire if you mix species.
I have personaly seen members of tortoise clubs in So. cal who were involved in adoptions have a pen of animals that consisted of 2 or 3 different species that were up for adoption (desert and sulcata torts mixed with box turtles on the edge of a pond with red ear sliders in it) This was not a case of an experienced person breaking the rules, it was just stupid ignorance and denile. Good luck

There are areas where these animals (DT and Desert boxie) are sympatric... you tell me who's in denial.

If you keep your animals outdoors... you are mixing species.

Remember, biology is not black and white.
-----
Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

It is a little difference to put two species together in a small garden enclosure (even if it is 100m² it is still small) compared to thousands of square miles of natural habitat were one will hardly ever meet the other.... Furthermore its a question of disease, if you would collect the 2 for yourself in the same habitat (which of course is prohibited but just an example) it could work out, but it should not be done if they are from 2 different localities.... and furthermore, they either need one from their own species or nothing, or are we living together with a gorilla because we can't find an apropiate partner of our own species???!!!.....

If you are keeping animals outdoors you are mixing species regardless of how seperated you think they are.

I don't advocate mixing species but I don't condemn it either... it all depends.
-----
Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I don't see your point. Where am I mixing Testudinidae species if I keep them well seperated outdoors?!?

If you are keeping more than one type of anything outdoors you are mixing species in that there is no way you can control all the vector mechanisms (wind, water, birds, bees(bugs) and whatever else that runs through the yard). Just because you have them in individual pens/enclosures it does not mean they are totally separated. The only vector you've eliminated is one to one contact which I have to admit is a main one.

Just to get back on track... I don't recommend this practice. There are added risks. It can and has been done successfully for many years and in many collections. It is still practiced either knowingly or unknowingly with complete success.
-----
Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

well, birds and others of course can't be eliminated, but the risk on insects etc. carrying diseas of turtles is relatively small, MUCH smaller than mixing species.....

To your last sentence: It has been done "successfully" sometimes, not as many times as you state but it has gone far more times unsuccessfull with the full loss of the whole collection in many instances, new creation of new herpes infections etc. etc. etc. As I said, why don't humans live together with Apes then.... I guess if so, hiv and stuff would be even more devastating..... same with turtles diseases and mixing species.....

There are areas where these animals (DT and Desert boxie) are sympatric... you tell me who's in denial

not really.

For the most part, from what i can tell, luteolas are found in more heavily vegetated areas and at higher elevations, at least here in AZ.

The ranges may overlap but the habitats don't (at least not to a large extent)

Anyway if they were to be kept together the desertbox would do better with a high humidity hide.
Is there an issue with DT eatsing insects? They seem to comprise the large part of the wild diet for desert box turtles.

WOAW, Ok it was just a question and I am glad everyone enthusiastically gave there opinions. I will not mix species. I'll just look into adopting another DT or keeping the boxie seperate. Thanks

David