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I was talking with a local pyro afficionado the other day about the appearance of the wild pyros we see in the "sky island" mountain ranges of SE Arizona. These animals have a reputation for having lower band counts, more reduced black, and brighter reds than your average pyro. We had both seen snakes that fit that description in the wild, and maybe they are more common here than elsewhere, but they seem to be more of the exception than the rule. On average they definitely have lower band counts, but reduced black and brighter red are not common. The average wild pyro from these ranges has a very dark red, muddy white, and lots of black crossovers. It is more common to find one that is almost totally black down the back than to find one with no crossovers at all. The variability is incredible and probably the reason for the ssp. "woodini" being dropped.
A couple of months ago I posted a photo I took of a wild pyro and posted the mountain range I found it in. A couple of people who lived more than a thousand miles away questioned whether I had the locality right! Are the reputations of certain locales often exxagerated? Do breeders with a pair of WC locality snakes breeding for traits that aren't the norm in that locality? Just food for thought.
2004 AZ herp photos

**A couple of months ago I posted a photo I took of a wild pyro and posted the mountain range I found it in. A couple of people who lived more than a thousand miles away questioned whether I had the locality right!**

True, but funny beacause that has happened to me. I've caught pyros and rosy boas here in Arizona and when I posted the pic, people have questioned it, "because they didn't look anything like their cb snakes" LOL

**Are the reputations of certain locales often exxagerated? Do breeders with a pair of WC locality snakes breeding for traits that aren't the norm in that locality?**

I believe that a lot of breeders have selectively bred for certain traits. So although the original lineage was from a certain mountain; after numerous generations of selection breeding they are now producing animals that look nothing like the parents.

Most pyros in the Prescott area have a lot of black crossovers, but I have seen a few caught that had very little (not the norm).

I also believe that in southern Arizona you will find a natural intregrade of knobs and pyros. I know that woodini is no longer a valid ssp. Hence more of a variation in southern Arizona than in other parts of Arizona.

Rich Gassaway would be a good person to contact for this kind of info.

Kerby...

I think that often animals identified as "locality" probably aren't really very representative of the typical animal from that locality. Breeders tend to take only the best looking animals from a locality and try to enhance the features they find attractive through breeding,crossbreeding,etc. After a few generations, the offspring don't really look anything like a typical snake from that area. While technically the lineage can be traced back to a certain area, in my opinion, these aren't true loclae animals. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with this, as who doesn't want the nicest looking snake possible? Just that by trying to enhance certain traits, you are pushing others aside, and this ,to me, dilutes the locality of an animal. It isn't like a nice wide banded Eastern crawls around in the wild and will not breed until he finds a wide-banded female. Just my 2 cents worth.

Todd

By cherry picking the most exceptional animals from the wild, and then breeding only the most exceptional offspring, you seem to get animals that are more the exception than the rule, and not very representative of their locality. I'm as guilty as anyone of buying snakes that are the exception.

I also love the look of wild snakes. It's ironic that what most would consider undesirable or ugly locality snakes are actually more authentic to their wild brethren, and they cost less too!

Greg

Agree 100% but the eastern king example might not be a good one. We've been working with kings from se VA for years and haven't been able to produce high numbers of wide banded neonates via selective breeding! Kinda odd but true at least for this VA population.