Reptile & Amphibian Forums

wtf?
i went to a pet shop today and the guy there imports rare breeds of chameleons from all over, he told me he had various kinds but 1 kind stood out.. he told me he had a pair of picasso pardalis.. i.e picasso panthers...
he wanted a phenomanal amount of money for them! he wanted £600 a pair which is basically $1100! unfortunately i didnt get to see them but are there really a breed of chameleon called this?
im sure the guy doesnt know what hes on about and was just making the name up to try and impress me but fortunately im kinda wised up on people like this who import wild caught chameleons cos i dont agree with how its done, anyway has anyone got any info as to if this is a REAL breed of chameleon or was he just speaking crap?...

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4x Veiled Chameleon
1x Panther
Hollie/Willow > female veileds
Carling/Houdini > Male Veileds
Louey > Panther

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[removed advertising from signature file]

Edited on August 7, 2004 at 23:05:51 by phwyvern.

Picasso panthers are just another name for ambilobi panthers, just someone changing the name to try and make it more "rare" and make a quick buck.
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From Sunny Florida
Jovana's kids listed below
1.0 Veiled
1.1 Ambanja Panther
1.1 Tamatave Panther
1.1 Ambilobe Panther

Piccaso's is arguably the same thing as Ambilobe. There used to be three names thrown around for this panther chameleon morph that shows lime green,red, yellow and sometimes blue, and that is Ambilobe, Sirama, and Piccaso. For a while there is much debate wheter these three "morphs" are the same thing, But much of the chameleon community now just called all three Ambilobe.

Piccaso was actually a labelled given by the famed Olaf Pronk, which was supposed to be a little different from Ambilobe. some people still think there is a difference, however. Lane from Legendcham believes that there is a size difference between picasso and Ambilobe, with ambilobe being a little smaller. Ivan Alfonso at Mythical chameleons is tottaly againts the idea of ambilobe and picasso being different.

So, to sum it up, wheter u beleive that Picasso/ambilobe/sirama are the same thing, the animal that your pet store is trying to sell you does exist and is a true morph that costs that much.

The whole thing is very subjective (as previously stated). You'll get lots of answers from lots of people. When it's all said and done, they are all fairly close on colors (remember it all has to do with genetics anyways). That being said, $1,100 US dollars is about right for a pair of that magnitude. It's up to you if the aesthetics of the pair are worth it to YOU. In the end, isn't that all that REALLY matters? It doesn't sound like you're being ripped off as long as they're telling the truth about their locale.

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Doug.

0.1 Veiled Chameleon
1.3 Ambanja Chameleons
1.1 Blue bar Ambilobe Chameleons
1 marine reef aquarium (home)
1 marine aquarium store

Hehehehe. Can't believe this "debate" is still up in the air. Since Panther chameleons are not divided into subspecies or anything of the sort, using size or other skeletal structures will never prove that an animal is different than the other. They will all be panther chameleons regardless if they are "picasso", Ambilobe, Ambanja, Nosy Be, Rembrandt or VanGogh.
We know for a fact that "picasso" is a simple brand name impossed by Olaf Pronk on a locality that he was probably the first to knowingly export. Aside from that we know nothing else in paper. Yet, it is said that a picture is worth 1,000 words (or something like that) so it is very easy to look up the "picasso" gallery in the Adcham website and look for animals that have been imported from Ambilobe to find that there will be 1 Ambilobe that looks very similar, if not identical, for every "picasso". If you have trouble locating Ambilobe pics, just let me know and I will do my best to get them for you to compare side by side.

Why am I against calling a locale by brand name? Because it simply makes it confusing for the chameleon hobby. Regardless if you label an animal as "picasso" or not, the price is still high because it is a well sought after locality. I get at least 1or 2 emails a week still asking me the same thing on their differences. I guess this "debate" will always exist but for those of us that agree on the "seeing is believeing", just go to the "picasso" gallery and compare, I think you all will be pleasantly surprised.

Ivan

Camiello,

The "Picasso" panther, along with Ambilobe, is a morph.
Chameleoncrow was right, when he told you that the name
"Picasso" was given by the exporter, Olof Pronk. While there
is still much debate over the "Picasso", none of us here in
the USA really know for sure if it is a separate morph from
the Ambilobe. I personally obtained the Picasso panther from
Olof Pronk, a couple of years ago. I did notice that both the
males and the females, were consistantly larger than the
Ambilobe. The offspring of the Piccassos from Mr. Pronk were
larger and grew at a faster rate than the Ambilobe as well.
That is the only true difference that I noticed. I have spoken
with another exporter, and he told me that Mr. Pronk had what
he called " a honey hole" for collecting the Picasso. Several
of the exporters have tried to find out exactly where these
panthers are being collected. To date, I do not believe that
they have been able to get that information. There have been
rumours that his collectors have been intercepted with bags,
labeled Picasso, but that is hearsay.
I assume that you
do not live in the USA, because Mr. Pronk did not export to the
USA this year. In fact, he probably will not be exporting to the
USA again. He recieves more money, and less hassle from other
countries, like Japan. The bottomline, is that nobody here in the
USA can say for sure, that there is indeed a separate
morph or not. The above statements, are based on facts, not opnions.

im from the UK near london, the guy who had them actually only buys farmed chameleons im told from my local expert, so who knows.
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4x Veiled Chameleon
1x Panther
Hollie/Willow > female veileds
Carling/Houdini > Male Veileds
Louey > Panther

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Edited signature file to remove unacceptable advertising. [phw 8/7/04]