Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ok i'm just a little curious about the longevity of the current ball python economy. what i mean is this. are there that many breeders out there that have the money to be constantly forking out 20-50 grand on individual snakes to mantain the current level of production of these super awesome designer morphs. i know there can not be anyone out there buying these $20k snakes just as pets. i'm not saying that the prices should be lowered to pet level but just curious as to where everyone sees it going in the next 10 yrs. lets look at the platty for instance. ralph davis took a huge gamble on buying that snake. ok it produces leusistics. he didn't know that would come from this breeding. it's a co-dom trait so how long until every well known breeder has a few males and are putting them in with every female they have to cash in on the $50k price tag they are going for now. and yes i know the clutch size is tiny compared to the large python species which is why they hold their value for so long especially with the recessive traits. what the heck i'll go to daytona look at the super high dollar snakes and buy a few albino het pairs and produce some albino's in 4 yrs and they will probably be at the bargain price of $500 each by that time. let me know what you all think.
-----
a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

i am not an expert or big time breeder, here's my 2 cents.
i think the albinos were going for 10k about ten years ago, they are around 3k now. as more designers are produced the price will fall (supply vs demand). they will only come down to a certain point however. albinos are still 3k and there are plenty out there. just my thoughts

thanks for your time

vaughn

Something to take into consideration:

You used Ralph Davis as an example for taking a gamble/investment on an expensive snake. While you and I may not have the money to put into the animals for someone like Ralph this may not be such a large expenditure. Granted I do not know him personally, but according to his website he says, "I have other sources of income, so I do not rely on the sale of the snakes". He has a nice looking place and for all we know the man makes a million a year. Believe me 20,30, even 50k a snake is A LOT of money no matter what your income, but keep in mind the BIG name breeders do very well. My guess is when the price is this high money exchanges hands among the larger breeders and larger unknown breeders with a few extra bucks. Once the select few have established a nice breeding colony the price starts to come down. Now, I am speaking for $30,000 and better priced animals - new impressive morphs.

I recently made a deal with an old friend of my to start our own breeding business. Something I have wanted to do for the last 14 years. I have a male het albino proven breeder and a 66% possible het for albino. I spent a grand total of $450.00 on them and my partner plans to purchase either a het or a female albino for the fall of 05'. So we may have three thousand plus invested, not including the purchase of other snakes, and I doubt the price of albinos will drop much. My advice to you is buy that pair at daytona, but do not do it ENTIRELY for the money, and you will be much more content with the money you have spent. I started caring for ball pythons before all the hype as a result of the many morphs to choose from within the species. My point is many wealthy people have admitted to starting a business doing something they loved to do and not for the money. One example I can recall of the top of my head is Walt Disney

I hope this gives you an expanded perception of the newly prosperous ball python industry. Do it for the right reasons and I think you will be much happier.

I do feel one day many of these morphs will become more sensibly priced, but if we all could afford them there would not be as much of an interest.

EVERYTHING I WROTE IS MY OPINION!!!

Hope this helps,
Todd G.
-----
1.1 Balls - Male het/albino, Female 66% het/albino
***Fingers crossed for next season!!!***

....albino burms have been around 19 years (Bob Clark produced the first CH ones in '85)...THEY still sell for over $100 and take into account average clutch size. Albino balls will still be well over $1000 each in 4 years. No worries mate!
Scott J. Michaels DVM
Serpent City

Albino balls are a ground Floor project meaning they are needed to produce some of the nicer crosses out there. The three base morphs: ghosts, pastels, and albinos will be pretty steady. I do believe Pastels will be dropping as all co-dom morphs drop. Look at spiders for example. Three years ago they were in the 15-20k's now they are down to around 7k (females). I jumped into the market and purchased a bunch of 100% het albinos. Even if the price drops I'll still get my investment back. Regardless I'm a hobbyist before breeder/business man and I also have another source of income which is my primary. If you look around few breeders including the very large ones breed snakes for primary income purposes. It's great that the hobby can pay for itself! Infact that is what I'm looking to do. Most of the money I make (if any you know how that goes, don't count anything before eggs hatch and still got to get everything feeding and so on!) will be put back into the hobby. Most of the Real high dollar snakes are sold between breeders for less then they are advertised for. I'm not ready to invest 50k into a mojave or lesser platty. I've gotten into the base morphs so I can build up to that point. It's going to take years of producing and holding back alot of animals to be able to produce enough to hit the market place. It needs to be looked at as a long term investiment. There really is nothing like working with something you love and getting paid for it. Everyones dream which isn't always possable. Back in the Day when there weren't many morphs around (unheard of) if any I still had normals. Anyways sorry for the ramble but these are just my thoughts.

John Light
Pristine Pythons

"a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!"

I totally agree. They are the best dogs on earth.

PUNISH THE BREED NOT THE DEED.

I dont know about the snake breeding thing, but if I were filthy rich I would buy a few "designer" ball pythons as pets.

oops, I had it backwards on the last post!!!!

"a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrior as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

I totally agree. They are the best dogs on earth. "

I would have to say that Labs take the cake on this one. Much more of a family dog and more affectionate than a pit bull......
-----
Josh
My Email

Even if what you say is true and you spend say ,$1500 at Daytona and buy 1.2 baby hets, and even if by the time you produce albinos they are $500 each (I doubt it)...

Then, say your first season you get three albinos from your hets. At a value of $500 each, you have made back your investment. That means from that year on, every albino, het and possible het you sell is profit. When you are talking about a snake that lives 20-30 years, that's alot of profit, no matter how low the prices go...

Sure, prices will go down - pastels are a great example. But I think pastels are still the best thing that has happened to bp's because males are coming down to a price many people can afford. Once those folks have the thrill of hatching out a pastel (and selling some babies), they'll want to try to hatch out an albino, or pied, or whatever.

Where are the people who are complaining because they paid $3,500 for a pastel male three years ago? None of those folks are complaining - even though pastel males go for $1,000 now - because they have made that $3,500 over twice already at least. Last year was my first season hatching out pastels from my male, and I got 2.2. This year I got 6.4. Conservatively that's at least $18,000 in babies. Not bad, and besides, it's so darn FUN!!!

Good luck, Christy

It's simple supply and demand.

New, genetic morphs, will be expensive until they aren't new or rare any longer.

Impresive morps will drop in price much more slowly since the demand is so much higher. (I like bright colors and wild patterns, and I think a lot of other do as well.) I wouldn't spend a great deal of money on a patternless dull looking snake, and a lot of others wouldn't as well, so the demand for these should be lower and the price should drop much more quickly. I say should, because if their genetics are needed to create another new or desirable morph, they could "artificially" keep their pricer than their appearnace dictates. Though beauty is in the eye of the beholder, most people seem to like bright shiny objects.--Men anyway!

Compare and contrast the exotic car market with the exotic ball morph market for instance.

How many "regular" people can afford to drive a $500K car? or a $100K car? or a $50K car?

Where I live, $30K cars are every where, a $50k car is pretty common, a $100K car less common but still seen quite often, and $500K car less common still, but they are around. (prettiest car I have ever seen driving down a local street--A jaguar xj220--about $500 K 10 years ago, and worth well over $1,000,000 now. I won't be buying one anytime soon! And if did buy one, I wouldn't dare drive it on a public street where just about anyone could hit it!) Why are new exotic cars still so expensive? Where is that market going?

My guess is that that market will stick around just like the ball market. There will always be something new and rare that some people are willing to pay a lot of money for. And it only takes some willing buyers to keep the price of something rare very high indeed. And, on the other hand, you can reproduce your balls and make your money back. Try doing that with exotic cars! A lot of people are willing to spend a ridiculous amount of money on a snake, when they can be fairly sure they will be able to make that money back in a few years.

Rodney

All this is assuming that nothing drastic happens to our economy.

For instance, what if we have multiple terrorist attacks in this country? Look what happened to the economy when 9/11 occurred. Things will change is ways we can't even imagine.

What if something happens to our oil supply and people can't get to work?

All of the sudden people won't have disposable income, and all these frivolous markets will crash. If you are worried about getting enough food to stay alive, for instance, will you be buying any expensive snakes? any cheap ones?---If something like this happens, you will see the prices drop to very low levels, and very few people will be willing to buy them even then. Expensive morphs are a sign of just how strong our economy is currently---lots and lots of people with lots of disposable income. How may other countries in the world would support these kinds of prices/markets?

For instance, if there is one albino ball for every 100,000 Americans, and the price here is $2K, what would the price be for an albino ball in Ethopia, with that same level of albino balls per capita? How about Mexico? Much, much lower I am sure. (assuming they can't export them to us, for our prices)

Rodney