Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all,

1 Who here free handles or has free handled their or someones elses hot snakes?

2 Who here has free handled non venomous species in front of an audience?

3 Who here is against free handling venomous species (or would be venomous species(venomoids)) and if against what are your reasons for being against it.

Note, Free handling here is the handling of a snake by supporting the body in the hands and allowing the snake to move freely amongst the hands.

Thanks and just of note, this is not designed to start or insight a flame war just a curiousity of mine in to the different way of herp keeping in different parts of the world.

Regards,

Scott Eipper

1) yes I do free handle on regular basis with a range of species but I tend to only free handle individuals at certain times when I believe it is possible to do it with a margin of safety.

2) Yes, on a regular basis

3) No, I am not against free handling.

Scott

Good answers Scott and my ones are the same as yours (I think).
PS I also free handled my now deceased Akita!!!!

Another bad practice..... Another reason why most people should never be within 10 yards of a venomous snake..... Another reason why this wonderfull hobby is going down the tubes.....

n/p

If you free handle, why? And who here that free handles also spends alot of time watching the friggin' crochunter?

To answer your questions.
I don't free handle.
Don't condone free handling.
Nor do I feel that there is a need to free handle.

However, I do feel that everyone has their own right to do so, until the time comes that venomous snakes are banned.

I thought my post was pretty self explanitory..... But for the slow people I will get alittle more detailed....

I do not free handle.... Why??? Because it poses a risk to me, anyone around me, and the hobby itself..... There is no reason to ever freely handle a venomous snake..... It is a shame that while most hot keepers do everything they can to make this hobby safer there are still people like you that do the exact opposite.... Honestly when I read your name in a news report posted here I will not be suprised..... Nor will I be sympathetic.....

n/p

1) Depends...I freehandle those Ophistoglyphic (rearfanged) species that are not lethal.

2)On MANY occasions. I give snake demonstrations at least once a month in association with my activites with my local herp society.

3)I do not approve of freehandling venomous species because it basicly is playing roulette. Grace Wiley (a famous keeper)was killed by the one cobra that did not behave as she expected. Venomoids can give the wrong impression of safety to an audience and actually the handler, because they can inhibit the natural sense of caution that goes with working with what otherwise would be a potentially dangerous animal.

That's my opinion.

Frank
-----
"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

1) I have on a few occasions made mistakes that resulted in my momentarily restaining a retreating snake by the back end while out of reach of my hook, and I have held the back end of a rather docile king cobra to remove leftover shed while the rest of him lay on the floor in front of me (entirely by feel so I could keep my eyes on his head). That's as close as I get to free handling hots.

2) If you really meant to say "non venomous", then yes I free handle non venomous in front of an audience occasionally. There's always at least one person who asks if it's venomous, so I get the opportunity to point out that I would not be handling it that way if it was.

3) My thoughts go like this:
On principal, I am a big believer in personal freedom and I think if someone wants to free handle thier hots, that's thier business. Even if I thought it was certain suicide, it would still be thier business and not mine.
However, when something does go wrong it is used against the vast majority of us that do not free handle.
The people who use one person's accident as an excuse to curtail everyone else's freedoms are the ones who are in the wrong, not the free handler.
There are more of them than hot keepers and I have no reason to expect them to do anything to help our cause.
But I would hope that ALL hot keepers would be concerned about the plight of thier fellows and refrain from doing things that will be used against them, even if it is not exactly "wrong".
I do think less of people who knowingly endanger my freedoms for thier own gain/enjoyment, but based on my first point I don't feel I have the right to demand or try to force them to stop... But I do sometimes let them know that I don't appreciate it...

I hope that was fairly coherent...

I READ A POST LAST NIGHT THAT I THOUGHT WAS PRETTY INTERESTING. A PERSON DESCRIBED FREE HANDLING AS WALKING ACROSS A BOARD. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S SET UP ON BRICKS OR OVER THE GRAND CANYON, IT'S STILL JUST WALKING ACROSS A BOARD. IT'S THE CONSEQUENCES THAT CHANGE. YOU'RE PROBABLY AS LIKELY TO BE BITTEN BY A KING SNAKE AS KING COBRA. YOU'RE ALOT LESS LIKELY TO DIE FROM IT THOUGH. BIG DIFFERENCE. "THEY" ARE ALSO ALOT LESS LIKELY TO START PASSING LAWS BECAUSE OF IT. I'M NOT GOING TO KNOCK THE GUYS THAT DO FREE HANDLE. IT'S THEY'RE LIFE. IT WOULD BE NICE IF THEY KEPT IN MIND IT'S OUR HOBBY THEY JEOPARDIZE. SO NO, I DON'T, I HAVEN'T, AND I WON'T TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS.

I free handle hot snakes
I free handle venomoid snakes
If I get bitten then so be it
This is my "Hobby" aswell, and my living

1) no, never once, even as an "immortal" teenager; guess momma didn't raise no dumbsh*ts

2) i don't keep non-venomous snakes any more

3) i deeply, remorselessly resent people who freehandle dangerously venomous snakes (i.e. those that deliver the snakebites that make the news). why? because your right to suicide or disfigurement extends only as far as my right to possess venomous snakes. by exercising your right you will likely infringe on mine, sooner or later, little by little or all at once. and you already possess mine (you can keep venomous snakes too), so why do you want more? freehandling, particularly in the context of our nanny society, is selfish, puerile, and of otherwise dubious motivation.

people who do not share our tastes will never understand us. they fear our captives, and that's that. sometimes to an irrational degree (ever tried to rent out a house that has caged snakes in it, that will be moving soon? "oh god, they must be in the walls!". our right/priviledge to keep dangerous animals exists at the pleasure of the masses, or their representatives. if we are perceived as a danger to the public health our right/priviledge will be revoked. we simply have to keep below the radar. i see no need to debate the justice of this situation, or political theory, or anything else, because we can't change perception in a meaningful time scale. let's just look at things as they are: most people think we're freaks, and freaks are easily discriminated against. we might even see a consitutional amendment...sorry for the digression, that whole thing just chaps my ass.

anyway, i can't believe the responses to this poll i've read. the situation in this hobby is worse than i realized. we'll all have to be outlaws to keep snakes if you guys keep it up. bye-bye imports, bye-bye hamburg/daytona/san antonio/columbia, bye-bye KS venomous classifieds, hello paranoia, suspicion, and persecution. f*cking wankers.

jimi gragg