Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi folks, thought I'd stick my neck out.

I've read the three provided links about breeding JCP's. I'd read the one that is a simple caresheet (I didn't see anything there about breeding JCP's) and the other two, while fascinating reading about the specifics of an IJ and a JCP clutch, didn't really go into details. I WOULD do a search on google or other source, and I'm sure I'd come up with some interesting links, however I have a lot more respect for those who are actively breeding the animals now. A reason for this is when I started breeding feeder mice I read a zillion care sheets... and after actually breeding them for a while, I realized just how completely misleading half of the websites were. If I were to only read anything I came across, I could be misled completely. If I read a site recommended by someone on here, then I feel a lot more confident.

So... some of my most specific questions:

1. What is the accepted age/size that is most recommended for breeding JCP's? With colubrids the earliest is 1.5 years, and then only if they have acheived a good size. If small they should be kept another year before breeding or eggbinding can occur.

2. Are there temperature restrictions or conditions that will prepare a JCP for breeding? With colubrids I cool them from about Christmas or thanksgiving for a couple of months. power feed once they wake up, breed after first shed. From one of the two websites I read It seems that JCP's are put together in the fall?

3. With kingsnakes breeding is heavily supervised (otherwise feeding might take place, leaving you with a well fed snake, and no snake eggs). I gather from what I read that JCP's are left together for a more extended period until breeding is witnessed, or something. Would anyone like to clarify?

4. How long are JCP's gravid?

5. What is the average clutch size?

6. I noted from the sites I was reading that the snakes were manually pipped at day 51... but wasn't sure how it is done with the eggs in an incubator.. the temperatures seemed to be shifted frequently when the python incubated her own clutch.

7. Is it more common to allow a python to incubate their own clutch, or to use an incubator?

8. If a python incubates her own clutch, does she ignore the hatchlings? Or are they maternal towards the little snakeys?

For clarification, I do not own a male JCP, I do not plan on breeding until she is 2.5 years... or older if that is the recommended time frame, and even longer perhaps if I don't have a male. I have one Arizona Mountain Kingsnake... I'm getting her a mate this year as a new hatchling. By the time he is ready to breed she'll be four years old. I don't mind waiting and learning and judging my situation from time to time to be sure that I wish to breed. I would not breed irresponsibly.

I just would like to learn about my beauty. I doubt I will purchase a male JCP until/unless I am sure I want to breed and have a plan for the hatchlings. I would just like as much information as possible.

~Sasheena

Current Snake Collection:

2.4.? California Kingsnakes (2 hatched, 3 already pipped, 3 waiting to pip in addition to the 2.4)
0.1 arizona mountain kingsnakes
1.1 blotched kingsnakes (plus 8 eggs)
1.2 cornsnakes
0.0.7 insectivorous ground snakes.
1.0 rosy boas
0.1 JCP
0.1 Spilotes Pullatus.

“What is the accepted age/size that is most recommended for breeding JCP's?”

Females should be around 2.5 years of age with significant body mass to hold them for the incubation period. As a general rule of thumb 2000-2500 grams is appropriate for cheynei. Males can probably breed around 1.5 years of age and significantly lower weight. Things to take into consideration are that an average clutch will be roughly half the body weight of the animal. This especially hold true for younger animals which can cause problem as you said like egg binding and infertile clutches. The older the female the larger the clutch size, and the less work you have to do to return her to maintenance weight. This does not mean that it is ok to power feed an animal to get it above the recommended weight, as this will ultimately compromise the healthy of the animal.

“Are there temperature restrictions or conditions that will prepare a JCP for breeding?”

That is a debatable question. Most breeders offer a winter cool down and light cycle change, but some don’t. There have been recorded clutches with no temperature or light cycling prior to breeding. Once again, as a general rule of thumb in late fall feeding ceases in preparation for winter cooling. Once the animals have been determined clear of any digestible matter, temperatures can be reduced. This is all dependant upon your setup and geographical location. Normal day time temps of 85-90 degrees and night time temps of 80-85 (possibly lower if no night heat is offered) are reduced to day time temps of 75-80 and night time temps of 70-75 (some offer no daytime warm up). The temps are gradually changed over the course of a week or two and brought back up in the end of cooling the same way. These are just rough guidelines and can be varied to fit your personal preference. Some experimentation is definitely needed. As for light cycles they are dropped for 12/12 (off/on) to 14/10 or even 16/8. Total cooling time should be at least one month at minimum temps. I could go on forever with this…so if you want more just ask.

“I gather from what I read that JCP's are left together for a more extended period until breeding is witnessed, or something. Would anyone like to clarify?”

After or slightly before your spring warm up pairs are introduced. Either male into female’s cage or vice versa. Doesn’t really matter, I normally put the male into the females cage. This change makes him more prone to explore and hopefully find that waiting lady. If no copulation is seen and temps have been brought back up to normal. You can introduce/separate on a 3 days together 3 days apart schedule. The animals can be offered food while separated, but most won’t feed. Keep this schedule until the female ovulates. Ovulation is marked by a large swelling for up to 24 hours just past midpoint on her body. If you miss it which allot of use do, counting “17-22 days” from every shed is her oviposition (laying) date. If no action is seen, you may use other techniques to get them going. This includes, but is not limited to, male to male combating, alternate male’s shed introduction, misting, weather pattern watching (storm are great aka low pressure), manual stimulation, etc. Will expand if needed…

“How long are JCP's gravid?”
Once a female copulates she can ovulate anywhere between “11-25 days” after, or not at all. A prelay shed follows on an average of “17-22 days”. Oviposition takes another “19-35 days”. So basically you are looking at a minimum of 47 days and maximum of 82 days from a successful copulation. The successful copulation being the determining factor. I have personally witnessed copulation for three month before it took.

“What is the average clutch size?”

Average clutch sizes range from “9-28 eggs” with an average being “16”.

“I noted from the sites I was reading that the snakes were manually pipped at day 51... But wasn't sure how it is done with the eggs in an incubator.. The temperatures seemed to be shifted frequently when the python incubated her own clutch.”

Clutches usually hatch anywhere from “47-61 days” after ovipostion. I recommend not manually pipping till after day 55. If the first to naturally pip was 48 hours ago then it is advisable to manually pip the remaining eggs. This is done by carefully pinching a very small portion of the top of the egg together and making a small cut in the outer shell. If nothing comes out and no movement is seen in another 48 hours the hole size can be gradually increased and the neonate can possibly be removed if the yolk sack has been ingested for the most part. Allot more here on hatchling care…

“Is it more common to allow a python to incubate their own clutch, or to use an incubator?”

Most people incubate their carpet clutches in incubators at 89-91 degrees with near 100% humidity. There are many techniques that can be used to include 1:1 vermiculite/pearlite : water by weight, no substrate method, modified no substrate method, etc. Females can incubate their own eggs if you can keep the humidity high enough and provide a constant temperature just below 89 degrees. One thing to consider though is maternal incubation will tax your female even more, because she will not eat at this time. Much more hear as well…

“If a python incubates her own clutch, does she ignore the hatchlings? Or are they maternal towards the little snakes?”

She will be very motherly to the eggs, but won’t pay much mind to them ounce they hatch.

Next…..

All time frames taken from Pythons of the World: Australia by the Barkers.
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http://www.moreliapythons.com

I agree with everything there, except I've found that after ovulation, the pre-lay takes longer than 17-22 days. 26 days is the norm for me. But every collection is different.

Everything else seems fine to me.

Thanks for the complete and useful responses. Now when I'm reading the many various and sundry messages in this forum I have a base for understanding what everyone is talking about. Again, as I mentioned, I wouldn't even begin to THINK of breeding until at the earliest her 2.5 year mark, and most likely I will wait until the year following, since she is a very late starter following a year of being assist-fed. And I may never breed her. Time and cirumstance will tell.

Again, thanks for the clear answers.
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~Sasheena

Wish List:
0.1 adult Whitewater Rosy Boa
1.0 CB Spilotes Pullatus
1.0 Jungle Carpet Python

And this just goes to show everyone that I as well as others could probably write a book about breeding carpets and that would just be our individual experiences. The reason I chose to reply to you, is because you took the time to ask indivudual questions. And it still took me the better part of an hour to put it together. I have the info to share, but not always all the time to share it, as I am sure other don't as well. This is but the tip of the jungle breeding iceberg. If there is anything you wish to go over in more detail just ask and I am sure one of us can find the time to cover that facet.
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http://www.moreliapythons.com

I don't have any interest whatsoever in breeding any carpets, but that was a heck of an interesting bit of reading material. I think your post should be saved as a FAQ for people wanting to breed their animals, but that's just my opinion.

There's an excellent book called 'The Reproductive Husbandry of Pythons and Boas' that is a handy reference when something happens and you need a question answered at 4 am. It helped me a lot with my KSB's that were just born, and I'm sure I'll use it when I breed my carpets.

Just my responses, and not necessarily what other carpet breeders do.

1. I like to wait until females are four before breeding, as opposed to the more common three year rule of thumb. It just gives their bodies more time to develop. Is it really necessary, I don't know, but I liken it to a pregnant 15 year old versus a 21 year old.

2. Some cycle, and some don't. It has worked both ways. My big thin banded female produced 2 offspring(17 infertile) last year without cycling, though she produced nothing after being cycled this year.

3. I just tossed them together and let them be for the most part. You shouldn't have to worry about cannibalism. I have not found males to become violent with each other either.

4,5 see other responses.

6. All my clutches have pipped before day 51 if I remember correctly. I believe one clutch hatched out around day 40, while I was out of town. They were all incubated at 88F.

7. It seems to be more common to remove the eggs for artificial incubation. I intend on letting one of my females artificially incubate one of these seasons.

8. They tend to part ways once the hatchlings emerge.

I'm far from an expert when it comes to these things, but I've produced three clutches so far and am learning a bit more each time. Still confused to no end when it comes to ovulation, though lol.

Tim

Tim,

Do you just leave your pairs together during the whole season, or do you separate them every so often?

Jake

approximately three days on three days off.

Tim

xcellent post, just one thing, its leading up to breeding season down here, and i have put two males together to stimulate combat in a females enclousure, and the 2 boys went at it almost straight away, after five minutes i had to take one out as they were intertwined and banging around all over the place, i didnt know pythons could be so loud, it was getting quite nasty!Then again, another pair of males i put together curled up together!!!

cheers
Mark

I would never leave combatting males in the same cage unsupervised, and definitely NOT over night. Mine go nuts at each other and I have 4 adult males. They all simply HATE each other from December to May. Its crazy.