Reptile & Amphibian Forums

and although you guys are showing different points of view there is still alot to be learned in both.

It really doesn't matter whose right or wrong or whose smarter or even who shows the most proof to back up their thoughts and ideas from where i sit. The important thing to me is that these ideas and experiences are expressed for others to judge and take whats useful to them.

Although it would be nice to see pics of some of Sams captives its his choice to post them even if not doing so may appear to some that he's talking out of his arse and offering no proof to his claims. Again its his prerogative.

I'll end this in saying that 2 people with different backgrounds dont have to be at each others throats or even try to discredit one another. I say this because if giving the time and if one is truly talking out of his arse(generally speaking)he will eventually discredit himself with no help needed from the other.

Just my thoughts.

But i sincerely thank you both for what you've added to the forum.
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0.0.1 Varanus Salvator (Gator)
0.1.3 Varanus Exanthematicus (Adisa "long term captive" other 3 "yet to be named hatchlings"
2.0 Ferrets (Chaos & Kasha)
1.0 Cat (George)

You Welcome Monitorman. Actually we started off many months ago, in another forum and chat. It started off very polite and friendly. Then as time passed, you have seen the results.

All along I only ask for verification of anything. As we all can make theory and supposition. Heck, I do all the time. The problem is, the monitors in my cages didn't believe me either. So I had to do what they needed, no matter what I thought. And believe me, I thought much like Sam, in the begining. Only I tested it, and it proved to be wrong.

I don't believe are differences are exactly the content, but in approach. I believe in the real world, results are the product of more then theory. Its theory and application until results are recieved, then its method and application, that equals results.

All and all, knowing what monitors are and what you think they need, is more or less useless, that is until, its applied and expresses benefitual results. This is indeed the key.

Sam is a seems like a believer of words, and I am believer of actions. That was shown in a recent post below. Rope expressed how one of his monitors was helped by my advice. The key is, the monitor was helped, thats action. Sams response was listing a bunch of posts, as if posts did something. To me that is not help. It may lead to help, but until then it has not helped, its just words.

He treats it like school, you go to class and a teacher, teaches, then you take a written test. Then you can forget it. With living animals, it must be applied to be useful, even more, it must show benefitual results. There is a huge difference here. He has faith in the words and I have faith in what the words produce.

But I am glad your learning, now apply it. hahahahahahahaha FR

I think that is how the whole ding dong thing got started. I said, Field work and his papers, were not of benefit to our captive work. For me, that was and is true.

So, I got off my butt and looked for things I wanted to see, and sure enough I found them. I guess its about what we are looking for. By the way, I showed it too. hahahahahahahahaha

So he flipped and went on an on. He at times, has said, none of those papers are or were, directed towards monitors in captivity. Which is exactly the point. The reason they were of no use is, they were not suppose to be. Well, all and all, If my monitors and I live to fight another day, then its been a good day. hahahahahahahahahahaha FR

That keeping things straight can be hard, but you'll see that I agreed with rope's post, and that the list of a couple hundred pages of content-based posts was in response to your own post claiming I hadn't provided any detail.

Again, stop misrepresenting things. Your credibility, you know?

That you do not answer politely asked direct questions(from below, and from others) but you respond to wa wa wa.

About my credibility, I really could not care, I have monitors. I have healthy monitors and I produce healthy monitors, and I have for many many years and will for many years to come. Well thats all the credibility I need.

You need to understand, the only thing that really bothers me, you know, that sinking feeling in your gut, is when I do something stupid,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,with my monitors. And I have, what about you? FR

That I often have several things to do in a day that take precedence over responding to your woodpeckering, including working with my own animals. Apparently unlike you, I value getting things right. It's usually the fella on his back who jabbers the most, eh?

Come on Sam, step up.

Please stick to the subject of monitors, I will no longer indulge in your silly games. I will only ask you to stick to the subject and answer the questions below. You better get used to it and simply step up.

I showed two mertens right after hatching and about a year later, do you see any problems with them. Now lets see the ones you do right, as you say.

So, quit the crap and join in. Or admit your a fraud at keeping monitors. FR

You don't seem to want to step up to legitimate attempts to get something done. Please refer to:

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=539791,539791

I'd appriciate it if you'd add your input to the data.

Also how can anyone who keeps a captive, be a 'fraud' at keeping a captive. Is he lying that he has monitors? No, I've got photo's. Is he lying that he DOESN'T have monitors? No, he say's he's got monitors.

Thanks very much for your time FR.

Oscar

Sam said, including working with my own animals. Apparently unlike you, I value getting things right.

Hes inferring, I do not, and he does. Therefore he really should us what getting things right looks like, don't you think?

I think the mertens looked right, didn't you. See how simple things could be solved. Lets see a monitor, "done the right way" compared to that mertens, from under a litebulb.

The "fraud" part is referring to him "doing it right" we have not seen, it right, it wrong, it anything.

At this time, that is all theory has I do not really know if he even has a monitor.

I am also sorry, It would take to long to list what I have. Its also, not anyones business. You want an honest answer, theres one. Thanks FR

Swear off "silly games". From a guy who said he found 39 V. kingorum under one rock, let's not be using the word "fraud" too much, eh.

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Hey Frank, no use in asking him again. Hes not going to answer you, or maybe he will( after he thinks of something slick to say in a couple of days). If he had something to show he would've done it by now. He's been asked a thousand times since his "second coming of the messiah" post(which took him forever to write, by the way)...The ARM post(notice the ARM thing) and still, no answers. I know you want to have a discussion with him, but for some reason, he's not not willing to enter the arena,so to speak.If his field studies were so productive, I'd love to see how he incorporated them into his captives...but still nothing. We all keep monitors here and thats why we come here to better help our captives, not to be jeff corwins traveling the world. Still Sam offers no insights into how he incorporates his knowledge into the field of monitor keeping. His ARM post had nothing to do with my monitors or me, and not complicated in the least.

Here are some truths - real truths too.

Frank Retes- Probably the most succesful monitor keeper and breeder in our time and likely, of all time . Still humble enough to come here on the forums and help us keepers out.Although his advice may be harsh at time(I don't see it), it's truly in our monitors' best interests and not yours.

Sam Sweet- Put some radio transmitters on some wild monitors.Had some pretty good ideas in the beginning, but he got sour along the way. He's also become a naysayer...Sam, whats the deal? Thought you were scientific? I thought you were out for the best possible answers. Too bad.

Hey Frank still have that pic you posted of Sam's dehydrated croc on pink aquarium rocks awhile back on net? If you do, please post it again. Maybe you can post it with his permission or not. Thanks